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Material Efficiency Refund?

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DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#41 - 2014-07-27 03:30:03 UTC
sigh... nearly 10.5 years here, and they have only down a refund of sp's like 3 times.

just like after exodus they gave out 2 free days, and everyone wanted free days for the next 5 ******* years.

just like they gave out free stuff for x-mas, but people bitched when the free stuff was not 'cool or rare' free stuff.

The point, is it doesnlt matter what the reason in, you are not getting a sp refund. DEAL with it. And yes i have had that skill tried to klvl 5 for 8 years, do you see me bitchen?

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#42 - 2014-07-27 03:35:43 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
And yes i have had that skill tried to klvl 5 for 8 years, do you see me bitchen?

Got a lot of benefit out of it already huh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#43 - 2014-07-27 03:46:00 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
Alavaria Fera wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
And yes i have had that skill tried to klvl 5 for 8 years, do you see me bitchen?

Got a lot of benefit out of it already huh.



no, not really, its a wasted skill, my focused shifted to ceo and alliance head roles, i have not actually made anything beyond t3 stuff in.. 7 years

it was a 'gee i need a long skill.. well what the hell lets make this 5'

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#44 - 2014-07-27 05:07:24 UTC
Tzar Sinak wrote:
Explorers asked for a skill refund due to changes with Odyssey. Did not happen them, will not happen now.

Except that the Odyssey changes only changed the amount that the skill affected things (and just moved bonuses between skills). This change completely erased the old skill and added something completely different. It should have been refunded.

Just like Ethnic Relations should have been refunded.

But, CCP doesn't seem terribly interested in doing the right thing for their customers.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#45 - 2014-07-27 05:16:13 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
Tzar Sinak wrote:
Explorers asked for a skill refund due to changes with Odyssey. Did not happen them, will not happen now.

Except that the Odyssey changes only changed the amount that the skill affected things (and just moved bonuses between skills). This change completely erased the old skill and added something completely different. It should have been refunded.

Just like Ethnic Relations should have been refunded.

But, CCP doesn't seem terribly interested in doing the right thing for their customers.


Doomsdays went from kills everything on the grid to can only shoot it at one target.

They didn't get a refund and neither will you.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#46 - 2014-07-27 06:28:14 UTC
Titans in general were rare and powerful.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2014-07-27 06:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
I agree with the OP in that the skill is now useless for everyone except major Jita producers who rely on high turnover.

My own indy alt mainly produces Vexor and Thorax in batches of 20 once a month in remote centres which he sells slowly (one or two cruisers a day) over a period of a month or more. THE ME skill was previously useful and is now a total waste of time.

However the whole SP refund thing is bad.

Yes in the case of Crius the devs clearly decided to shaft existing small/medium high sec producers/salvagers/researchers in terms of both existing skills and also existing player knowledge in favour of new players and losec blocs but that does not in anyway entitle anyway to a SP refund.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#48 - 2014-07-27 09:43:15 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Yes in the case of Crius the devs clearly decided to shaft existing small/medium high sec producers/salvagers/researchers in terms of both existing skills and also existing player knowledge in favour of new players and losec blocs

grr, Crius

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kallen Kozukie
Channel Six News
#49 - 2014-07-27 11:34:38 UTC
Upon checking the 1 char i have production skills on, i will admit that the usefulness of the new skill is meh, unless you are a production mogul, which i am not, seems like a lazy replacement to me. no im not begging for sp back or anything, Just wish ccp would have replaced it with something else. Something.... i have no idea what, but 5% production time seems really lackluster for people who build things on occasion, rather than all the effin time.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2014-07-27 12:19:38 UTC
Kallen Kozukie wrote:
Upon checking the 1 char i have production skills on, i will admit that the usefulness of the new skill is meh, unless you are a production mogul, which i am not, seems like a lazy replacement to me. no im not begging for sp back or anything, Just wish ccp would have replaced it with something else. Something.... i have no idea what, but 5% production time seems really lackluster for people who build things on occasion, rather than all the effin time.


Even if you build things all the effin time as you put it its usually easier to run off some extra BPCs and produce the item with several alts.

The only place this skill is really useful rather than " kind of nice to have" is probably building caps and supers :D

Which still doesn't mean you should get SP refunded. The game changed, just cope.
Spurty
#51 - 2014-07-27 12:39:49 UTC
put prices up to "pass on the cost to the consumer" or something.

Not sure there ever should have been a skill that removed the materials needed to build an item that has identical properties as one made without that skill.

CCP could introduce a new skill that say, if trained to level 5 allowed you to make Meta 4 versions.

Would need to make it so that any invention can take any meta as a preq.

hmmm lots of changes easily dreamed up for industry and therefore, during this iteration, potentially happen.

Quite an exciting time to be a manufacturer either way.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2014-07-27 12:48:56 UTC
No.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#53 - 2014-07-27 12:56:55 UTC
Also follow the actual non whine thread on this topic which is changing the skill to a 2 or 3% per level reduction to anything industrial time, so Copying, Researching, Invention, Reverse Engineering, & Manufacturing. Have I missed an activity, probably have. If not a single one of those is ever useful to you, I don't believe you are an industrialist.

Especially since larger batch sizes can save materials due to the new rounding formula now, so even if you aren't working full steam, being able to sneak extra jobs in under 30 days may let you cut costs a fraction.
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2014-07-27 13:55:22 UTC
There is a difference between a change to a module or a ship and a change to skill. Changes to doomsdays, covert jump portals and so on, did not change the bonus of the skill being applied, it changed the module or ship in the name of balance.

There is no equivalent for what happened here except for Ethnic Relations, which should have been refunded as well. This is true whether or not you think the new bonus is worth it.
afkboss
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2014-07-27 13:59:10 UTC
Greyscale has already said it isn't getting refunded because it is too much work.

Doesn't matter that there are heaps of people that the new skill won't help. Suck it up this is eve and skillpoints can become useless at any time.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#56 - 2014-07-27 14:04:35 UTC
So in a time where you can save a ton of cash on setting up a POS in an unused system, but where you need to have your BPs in that POS and thereby put them at risk, a skills that (drastically) reduces the exposure time needed to get the job done is somehow “useless”?!

Ugh
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#57 - 2014-07-27 14:23:48 UTC
afkboss wrote:
Suck it up this is eve and skillpoints can become useless at any time.

Aww yeah, Skill Queue Online tears.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#58 - 2014-07-27 14:25:51 UTC
Denize wrote:
Derrick Miles got the point i was trying to make.


No, he simply agreed with you.

Thats not the same thing.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
afkboss
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2014-07-27 14:45:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
So in a time where you can save a ton of cash on setting up a POS in an unused system, but where you need to have your BPs in that POS and thereby put them at risk, a skills that (drastically) reduces the exposure time needed to get the job done is somehow “useless”?!

Ugh


For most people the limiting factor for the amount they build is the demand of the item or the availability of the materials. That is why a huge amount of people are not building 24/7 and will not be affected by the skill.

Material Efficiency was pretty much a mandatory skill that you needed to train to V for for any builder no matter if it was small quantity. This means Everyone had to train, it but the replacement skill will not mean anything to most of those people.

GM's like Greyscale do not understand that everyone plays the game differently and make changes that look good on a spreadsheet but screws over alot of players.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#60 - 2014-07-27 14:47:24 UTC
afkboss wrote:


GM's like Greyscale do not understand that everyone plays the game differently


Neither do you or the OP if you are going to argue with Tippia on this

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann