Science & Industry

why the heck are all of you endorsing refining of ore in highsec

you are screwing yourselves out of up to 20% of the value of your ore by refining it in highsec

just compress and sell on the market, and buy 20% more minerals than you would have gotten by refining yourself at the substandard facilities in highsec

I won't be selling ships/modules on my Trade toons until I can figure out what the recent changes mean for my entire 'mining to delivered ship' chain. It appears nullsec is going to get shook up which is good. It appears a lot of time I spent on skills and bp's was nullified without compensation... which I consider bad, very bad. I wasn't sitting on a bevy of legacy T2 BPs or in the well heeled company of a lax veteran org. Solo, I was earning money on things I mined, building from BPOs I'd paid for and paid both money and time to improve. The value I added with all that time and work appears to be gone. Poof.

Shifting over to ratting, missioning, or exploring would be the logical turn for someone like me but those have apparently been nerfed too; (specially since missioning reward used to be based largely on salvage and reprocessing for me and supposedly explorer loot has been nerfed as well... guess I'll have to see).

Right now I'm holding off on using the plex I'd been burning on 6 toons for the past year or so (effectively paying for 6 accounts) because I'm not really sure where this game is going or if I want to go there too. Trade alt profits used to pay for my pvp losses but trade can't do that for me anymore. I'm waiting to see if trade can even cover the manufacturing of my pvp ships - to see if I can break even anymore.

Guess half of me is very disappointed and half of me is like "right, so we adapt how?" And my third half is saying "Is it even worth adapting?"

I would like to see CCP offer us a chance to nullify our trade skills and get the SP back to invest in other areas.

Why does a POS help? The POS is also charged at the same rate, so all the POS saves you in 25% time (and the 25% fee saving that goes with that) at the expense of fuel costs. A newbie wouldn't use a POS enough to benefit. Instead, newbies can find system that few people use with a naturally lower fee. When the system gains popularity they can move to another. A large industrialist can't do that. If the fee goes up it's a lot of work to move.

So there is no advantage to getting lower fees? Are you high? And the UI at the very least has stopped the onset of RSI from the clicking of the old one.

Prices are likely to go up, at least in the short term, sure. They certainly won't triple. And while mining volume probably has gone down in high sec (not that I've seen evidence of that yet, miners are still everywhere), it will mainly be miners who used to be run by null players moving down to null to run mining there. It used to be a lot easier to mine in high sec, manufacture modules to compress the minerals then ship them down. Now we can mine some in null, buying the compressed lowends from miners (who in fact now need ZERO refining skills, as compressed ore will be more valuable than minerals), manufacturing what we need in null.

lol, you have to love these "the end is nigh!" parts of posts. If you can't figure out how to make more isk than before the changes and see this as a positive change, then you clearly were terrible at industry. There's so many more opportunities to increase your profit margins i's unreal. I'm already up billions on my highsec industry chain compared with where I would have been under the old system, because I've take the time to work out how to capitalise on the changes. Sure, if all you ever did was stare at EVE IPH, and make whatever that told you, then you are going to lose out, but that's not a fault of the system, it's your fault for not knowing your trade.

As mentioned, overall the biggest and probably only problem is the new "idea" or "reality" that you do not really need perfect 10 bpos because there are many bonuses together with so many people getting perfect bpos where all they had to invest is time, and in some cases significantly less time.

But that will pass, some of us dont even remember refining being in the game, eh? :)

There was pretty simple way to preserve - at least roughly - all the material costs from before. But solely for nice round number in blueprint's field and someone's overobsession with unification they decided to perform such atrocity. There is nothing wrong with other changes, aside from they all been delivered in half-baked state.

Compared to some of the posters in this thread, he is.

Ok Lucas, since you are obviously a "yes man" and havent actually thought through the complete chain of events let me break it down.

1. A POS is very useful to get more out of your refining. The cost of running a POS rules out new players.

2. Have you ever heard the phrase "Isk per hour"? moving around all over the place is very helpful you claim, but how much isk will you be loosing out on because your moving all over the place....ALOT!

3.You have not noticed less miners in high sec? Please pause reading this post and go back and look at the hundreds of posts form miners saying that they are stopping, or go talk to the high sec gankers, who will tell you the same thing, less miners = less targets = less pvp = terrible for the game...glad you found the benefit compression though wtg! Now you just need to get a logistics to get the compressed ore where you need, you mentioned nul sec...again you are removing the possibility for a new player to participate (I know its a shock, but not everyone wants to be a part of the blue doughnut) So yea less miners = less minerals = ship/mod cost increases = less pvp = bad for the game

4. The point of the post was to point out the very badly made decisions, sure we can still go out and mine and make isk, but now you have to add in the extra time needed to move all over the galaxy like you suggest, which in turn lowers your earning potential all the while forcing you to jump through a terribly designed UI hoop to make it happen. Please take your blinders off and stop being naive about the whole process, you havent made billions this week your just trying to use that comment to strenghen your poor argument,, although I can see that being a part of the nul sec community you dont really care to understand the woes of a high sec industrialist and thus have probably not actually looked into what it has done to them. The opportunities you claim are now available to increase profit margin is what is known as a straw man fallacy, the extra time, effort, and danger you will experience in moving around all over the place, like you suggest, will do more damage to your playtime than your isk output. Sure you may be able to make an extra 10 mil isk here or there, but you will spend hours moving around, which is more beneficial? the small scraps of isk you are chasing or the huge increased time now needed to move all over the place?

Your argument is short sided, and backed up with weak or non existent facts. Your inability to see the entire picture is what is limiting your argument. You are looking at the problem with rose colored glasses instead of the reality glasses others are using. It should be obvious that you have missed alot and truly dont understand the impact of the changes by the fact that you are pretty much the only non ccp/csm member trying to polish this turd of an expansion....its still a turd no matter how much you try and polish it up.

At one point, CCP planned to have copy-making take less time than manufacturing, in order to facilitate that very thing you suggest, i.e. the opposite of the pre-expansion situation where making a 1-run copy took longer than manufacturing 1 item. But then it seems to me as if CCP wrote somewhere that they had changed their minds and final copy time and build time would be equal.

What did they end up doing, of those possibilities? (For a character with all relevant skillz trained to 5, I mean.)

I'm having a bit of paralysis with the new changes, but I'm trying to make the best of it.

I'd usually do industry by logging on or jumping to a clone, clearing out jobs, load up a bunch of new ones, then log off for the night.

Now, I have to plan out if I want to move around to take advantage of the system indexes - which in highsec is pretty much always maxed out when I've checked. I also have to plan and try to auction for a team - I've done a few of those and given up since the bid gets sniped at the last second and doesn't update dynamically.

Even the BPOs I was gradually researching have to go in a POS now - which I don't know what the future is for that since you have to put them inside the POS (and I don't trust all the other corp members), so I won't do that. And the values for putting them in a station to research have been WAY too high (I know there were some bugs there), so that even researching time isn't worth it anymore.

These features basically remove the control over when I can do industry on my own time, so basically I won't be doing any casual industry anymore. It's pretty doubtful that I'll continue looking at training industry for anything significant.

Do.

Not.

Refine.

It makes cap builders cry.

Sell ore. It makes more ISK now.