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PVE? NO,only PVC(CCP).Maybe I should leave EVE too
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#101 - 2014-07-26 18:01:13 UTC
Arcelian wrote:
How much of that 8.2tn was reimbursed by alliance SRP replacement?
Irrelevant and, if anything, just proves the huge risks and effort involved.

Quote:
Yes, I can support that claim. In empire, you don't know friend or foe, in null sec you absolutely do. In empire, you don't know when your enemies are coming to hunt you, in null sec, you very well do.
How does this support your claim?
Oh, and knowing friend from foe in empire space is about as easy as it is in null.
Arcelian
0nus
#102 - 2014-07-26 18:05:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
How much of that 8.2tn was reimbursed by alliance SRP replacement?
Irrelevant and, if anything, just proves the huge risks and effort involved.

Quote:
Yes, I can support that claim. In empire, you don't know friend or foe, in null sec you absolutely do. In empire, you don't know when your enemies are coming to hunt you, in null sec, you very well do.
How does this support your claim?
Oh, and knowing friend from foe in empire space is about as easy as it is in null.


Quite relevant, as I said many pages back, that I'm speaking from the position of the OP, an average null dweller. It's not very risky when your ships are replaced for free.

It supports my claim because those two facets of null sec mechanics are a degree of safety you can't achieve in empire.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#103 - 2014-07-26 18:08:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Arcelian wrote:
Quite relevant, as I said many pages back, that I'm speaking from the position of the OP, an average null dweller.
Still irrelevant, since it doesn't affect the risks — it only proves that they exist since you have to go through all the effort to maintain the programs to make them sting less. So again, you're only proving my point.

Quote:
It supports my claim because those two facets of null sec mechanics are a degree of safety you can't achieve in empire.
…except that you can — trivially — if you ever need to, which you obviously don't because the risks involved simply aren't there to begin with. So again, having to go through all the effort to maintain the system you describe only proves that there is far more risk.
Arcelian
0nus
#104 - 2014-07-26 18:14:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
Quite relevant, as I said many pages back, that I'm speaking from the position of the OP, an average null dweller.
Still irrelevant, since it doesn't affect the risks — it only proves that they exist since you have to go through all the effort to maintain the programs to make them sting less. So again, you're only proving my point.

Quote:
It supports my claim because those two facets of null sec mechanics are a degree of safety you can't achieve in empire.
…except that you can — trivially — if you ever need to, which you obviously don't because the risks involved simply aren't there to begin with.


But maintaining those programs is relatively sting less, due to the massive amount of isk you will receive as a null sec dweller.

Are you seriously saying intel channels would work in empire? Lol You go ahead and try that, let me know how it works out.

And please tell all those miners that just got ganked, or corporations that just got war dec'd, that the risk isn't there.
Lady Areola Fappington
#105 - 2014-07-26 18:22:07 UTC
Arcelian wrote:


But maintaining those programs is relatively sting less, due to the massive amount of isk you will receive as a null sec dweller.

Are you seriously saying intel channels would work in empire? Lol You go ahead and try that, let me know how it works out.

And please tell all those miners that just got ganked, or corporations that just got war dec'd, that the risk isn't there.




Make it work. It's exactly what null dwellers did. There's no magic to an intel channel, I've run a couple for highsec based corps myself. Same with SRP, and all those other fun things null dwellers have. They aren't game mechanics, they're stuff anyone can do, you just have to have the drive, motivation and ability to do it.

You're doing this weird thing where you conflate player run and driven activities with game mechanics set up by the devs.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#106 - 2014-07-26 18:23:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Arcelian wrote:
But maintaining those programs is relatively sting less, due to the massive amount of isk you will receive as a null sec dweller.
Relative to not having to maintain them at all, they sting a hell of a lot and involve infinitely more effort.

Quote:
Are you seriously saying intel channels would work in empire?
You haven't tried I take it? Yes, they do. That's why people occasionally establish them for various purposes.

By the way, you do know that empire ≠ highsec, right?

Quote:
And please tell all those miners that just got ganked, or corporations that just got war dec'd, that the risk isn't there.
The risks aren't there. I keep telling them this every time they come to complain. War decs in particular offer pretty much zero risk. And again, should there be any kind of risk, you can establish intel channels same as everywhere else, thereby providing the same degree of safety (or more) as in null.

So no, those definitely do not offer any kind of evidence that you're safer in null — quite the opposite.
Arcelian
0nus
#107 - 2014-07-26 18:35:54 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
But maintaining those programs is relatively sting less, due to the massive amount of isk you will receive as a null sec dweller.
Relative to not having to maintain them at all, they sting a hell of a lot and involve infinitely more effort.

Quote:
Are you seriously saying intel channels would work in empire?
You haven't tried I take it? Yes, they do. That's why people occasionally establish them for various purposes.

By the way, you do know that empire ≠ highsec, right?

Quote:
And please tell all those miners that just got ganked, or corporations that just got war dec'd, that the risk isn't there.
The risks aren't there. I keep telling them this every time they come to complain. War decs in particular offer pretty much zero risk. And again, should there be any kind of risk, you can establish intel channels same as everywhere else, thereby providing the same degree of safety (or more) as in null.

So no, those definitely do not offer any kind of evidence that you're safer in null — quite the opposite.



Yes, I know that empire does not equal high sec... keep picking apart terms. You know damn well what I meant.

Yeah, sure intel channels exist in high sec, and they have just as much effectiveness as those that are used in null....lol. Out of the 1500 people in jita, you got it all narrowed down as to whom is friendly and who isn't...yea.

Yeah, those war decs offer no risk, no risk to the assets in space, no risk to, you know, undocking, no risk as to having to dissolve your corp to try to avoid it...and then getting dec'd again.

Man, I've spent too much time arguing with someone over the internet who has really thick glasses... <---Ad hominem
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#108 - 2014-07-26 18:39:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Arcelian wrote:
Yes, I know that empire does not equal high sec... keep picking apart terms. You know damn well what I meant.
The reason I ask is because if you know that, your insinuation that intel channels wouldn't work becomes… odd, to say the least.

Quote:
Yeah, sure intel channels exist in high sec, and they have just as much effectiveness as those that are used in null....lol.
Well, aside form the distinct lack of threats, yes. But if any threat should actually exist for whatever reason, then yes, they work. Especially in places such as Jita.

Quote:
Yeah, those war decs offer no risk, no risk to the assets in space, no risk to, you know, undocking, no risk as to having to dissolve your corp to try to avoid it...and then getting dec'd again.
Pretty much. Especially now that Crius has been released. I can't even remember how often we've been wardecced, and aside from outright forgetting some of our POSes existed, they offered no risk.

Quote:
Man, I've spent too much time arguing with someone over the internet who has really thick glasses... <---Ad hominem
No, that's just some very nonsensical attempt at… I don't know… abuse, maybe? Self-recrimination?
Arcelian
0nus
#109 - 2014-07-26 18:46:05 UTC
Please explain how war decs, have no risk, I'm a quiver with anticipation...you are all about supporting your statements with cold hard data, and spread sheets.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#110 - 2014-07-26 18:50:24 UTC
Arcelian wrote:
Please explain how war decs, have no risk, I'm a quiver with anticipation...you are all about supporting your statements with cold hard data, and spread sheets.

War dec = I know where they are, when they're coming, what they're flying, when they're on, where they live, what colour underwear they have. There are no surprises and no uncertainties. Barring embarrassing levels of incompetence (cf. those forgotten POSes), there are no opportunities for loss.

Thus: risk = 0 × 0 = 0.
Arcelian
0nus
#111 - 2014-07-26 18:57:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
Please explain how war decs, have no risk, I'm a quiver with anticipation...you are all about supporting your statements with cold hard data, and spread sheets.

War dec = I know where they are, when they're coming, what they're flying, when they're on, where they live, what colour underwear they have. There are no surprises and no uncertainties. Barring embarrassing levels of incompetence (cf. those forgotten POSes), there are no opportunities for loss.

Thus: risk = 0 × 0 = 0.


Except if you have multiple assets in space, you can't take them all down in the 24 hour period, you don't have time to transfer all the pocos to another corp (which I'm not sure if that's even legal).

You have no way of knowing where they are all at any given time, even using locator agents, there's a timer you know.

And you also assume that the majority of the player base, new corporations especially, know how to do all of that, which... you would be horribly mistaken.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#112 - 2014-07-26 18:59:05 UTC
Arcelian wrote:
Please explain how war decs, have no risk, I'm a quiver with anticipation...you are all about supporting your statements with cold hard data, and spread sheets.

Mostly the massive number of open stations, ability to drop corp, andvery small scope of hostile entities per wardec. Compare that to null or low where you don't get the option to now out of hostilities, anyone can freely shoot you whenever, and most importantly EVERYONE can choose to make your ships and assets explode.
flakeys
Doomheim
#113 - 2014-07-26 18:59:13 UTC
Peaceful Makbema wrote:

I used to be a trader, then you chanced market rules


Uhm , i am unformiliar with any changes they made for the trader class wich got them ''nerfed'' , please enlighten me of those horrific changes.


Peaceful Makbema wrote:

Now, it is 2014, not 2004 or 2009. There are lots of universe-like online game these days.


No , there are some space online games these days but there are NONE eve-universelike games out there and none in the making either.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Paranoid Loyd
#114 - 2014-07-26 19:01:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Arcelian wrote:
Except if you have multiple assets in space, you can't take them all down in the 24 hour period, you don't have time to transfer all the pocos to another corp (which I'm not sure if that's even legal).

You have no way of knowing where they are all at any given time, even using locator agents, there's a timer you know.

And you also assume that the majority of the player base, new corporations especially, know how to do all of that, which... you would be horribly mistaken.


If you don't know how to protect your things, you don't deserve to have them.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#115 - 2014-07-26 19:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Arcelian wrote:
Except if you have multiple assets in space, you can't take them all down in the 24 hour period, you don't have time to transfer all the pocos to another corp (which I'm not sure if that's even legal).
Eh, if 24 hours isn't enough, you have an order of magnitude more assets in space than you can ever make use of anyway so that gets filed right under “embarrassing levels of incompetence” (along with “massive waste of ISK”). And sure it's legal, if you can make it happen.

Quote:
You have no way of knowing where they are all at any given time
Sure I do. It's called “looking”. But more to the point, I don't need to know where they all are at any given time — I just need to know where they are if/when I want to do something, and that part is trivial.

Quote:
And you also assume that the majority of the player base, new corporations especially, know how to do all of that
Nope. I leave it to you to make these kinds of assumptions.
Arcelian
0nus
#116 - 2014-07-26 19:05:38 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
Please explain how war decs, have no risk, I'm a quiver with anticipation...you are all about supporting your statements with cold hard data, and spread sheets.

Mostly the massive number of open stations, ability to drop corp, andvery small scope of hostile entities per wardec. Compare that to null or low where you don't get the option to now out of hostilities, anyone can freely shoot you whenever, and most importantly EVERYONE can choose to make your ships and assets explode.


Wasn't comparing war decs to null/low, was only asking how they are risk free...


I suppose the marmite collective is a complete ****** alliance for decing so many corporations, because it's all a wasted effort, none of their dec'd corps are at risk. They never get jump freighters in high sec, I mean how could they? You should know exactly where they are at all times. It's risk free.

Tippia you are great at how saying things are on paper, but not how they actually are.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2014-07-26 19:07:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
difference between dealing with player hostility risks in highsec versus the same in low/null is that highsec offers less potential methods of hostility and more ways to identify and mitigate related risks

if a player's seeing less risk due to mitigation efforts of players, that's not a balance problem per se, no matter where they live
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#118 - 2014-07-26 19:08:43 UTC
Arcelian wrote:
Tippia you are great at how saying things are on paper, but not how they actually are.

I'm pretty great at both, thank you.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#119 - 2014-07-26 19:09:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
Tippia you are great at how saying things are on paper, but not how they actually are.

I'm pretty great at both, thank you.

modesty is a virtue
Arcelian
0nus
#120 - 2014-07-26 19:10:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
Tippia you are great at how saying things are on paper, but not how they actually are.

I'm pretty great at both, thank you.


You keep telling yourself that. Should also petition CCP to remove war decs all together, as they serve no useful purpose. It's risk free.