These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Burn Okkamon
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#41 - 2014-07-26 03:31:50 UTC
Only saying it makes it really real.
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#42 - 2014-07-26 05:01:14 UTC
Really real?

You guys have superior numbers, more experience with large-scale doctrine fleets, you have the infrastructure and working knowledge of freighting tons of ships to deploy to an area, you have neutral PoSes everywhere, and you have well entrenched corporations who know what eachother are capable of and are ready to assist eachother when you feel like you need to.

Corps come to CalMil, don't like being told that if they want to win they need to do x y and z, and they leave. Some of hte bigger corps and alliances have individualistic personalities and only work with eachother when they're pushed into it through desperate circumstances. We have a high turnover rate. We have large egos that clash over sometimes petty things (GalMil has gone through this recently, if I remember right ,but it's more endemic in CalMil).

For a relatively young alliance fending off the major Gallente bloc for a week, I think we did pretty well.
Subsparx
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#43 - 2014-07-26 05:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Subsparx
I wouldn't want things to be really real. Alright, in the future I'll refrain from using publicly available information.

CEO of Crimson Serpent Syndicate - www.crimsonserpent.com

Chairman of Heiian Conglomerate - www.heiian.com

Owner of FWC - www.factionwarfare.com
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#44 - 2014-07-26 06:15:43 UTC
Pretty funny to hear that we have more numbers than Caldari.

I'll grant you the point that our corps, leadership, and pilots are better though. Keep in mind, we're recruiting.

JUSTK is recruiting
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#45 - 2014-07-26 06:48:31 UTC
I didn't say anything about your pilots. And you Black Fox Marauders guys don't have a whole lot of room to talk when Crimson Serpent stomps you in the vast majority of small gang engagements.

Joining you guys would be a downgrade.
Subsparx
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#46 - 2014-07-26 07:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Subsparx
The numbers I posted were from yesterday, which may have well been an outlier. Many groups (oh no, more intel incoming) had moved their stuff out of Okkamon heading into the AU timezone, as they did not have a large enough AU presence themselves to ensure that it would still be Caldari owned by downtime. Lots of people decided to take a break last night. The fight was long, hard, and a blast, but it takes it's toll at a certain point. I can assure you, without posting more numbers, that there are not the same numbers I posted yesterday as there are online today. In fact, there may or may not be more people online in Caldari than Gallente right now. ;)

Back on topic though, awesome siege guys, had a blast fighting most of you (except that Perunga guy, I only like him when he rages at funkybacon). A lot of the members of my alliance experienced some of their first PVP in this battle, talk about a trial by fire. Lessons learned all around, we won some, we lost some, new strategies arose, new people have joined, some people have left, overall it was a great experience despite losing. Was definitely one of the biggest fights to hit the Caldari side of the war zone in quite some time. Does anyone have any numbers like what Veskrashen posted but from the Oicx campaign? I'm curious how the damage done compares, as that was quite a heavy fight as well.

CEO of Crimson Serpent Syndicate - www.crimsonserpent.com

Chairman of Heiian Conglomerate - www.heiian.com

Owner of FWC - www.factionwarfare.com
Okogawa Shaishi
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-07-26 07:37:06 UTC
Was fun to fight Galls in Okkamon when I had the time. Sadly I missed most good fights I think.
Motorbit
Moira.
#48 - 2014-07-26 08:58:36 UTC
everybody knows it realy where our cockbags that won that last fight with the ishtars. and the system for that matter.

our brilliant decission to use alcohol and cockbags in plex brawls lead to a massdestruction of pods with in turns resulted in a total demoralization of the caldari and the subsequent flip of the system.
look it up on dotlan. stats dont lie.
Epikurus
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2014-07-26 09:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Epikurus
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
Epikurus wrote:
This has been a clear issue with the last few system defence battles but trying to find a solution for it is very hard.


Then u guys shoulda helped laney and smook with enaluri and you woulda had an au tz a pretty fking good one at that


You've said that twice now as if you expect repetition to make it true. Given that those guys didn't turn up for small affairs like the defence of Innia what makes you think they would have provided any kind of reliable AU tz in Okkamon?

Edit - actually, I may have my dates all wrong. Was Enaluri before or after Innia?
Silverbackyererse
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-07-26 12:05:09 UTC
Epikurus wrote:
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
Epikurus wrote:
This has been a clear issue with the last few system defence battles but trying to find a solution for it is very hard.


Then u guys shoulda helped laney and smook with enaluri and you woulda had an au tz a pretty fking good one at that


You've said that twice now as if you expect repetition to make it true. Given that those guys didn't turn up for small affairs like the defence of Innia what makes you think they would have provided any kind of reliable AU tz in Okkamon?



Help is always given at Augworts to those who ask for it.
SmokinJs Arthie
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#51 - 2014-07-26 13:56:35 UTC
Epikurus wrote:
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
Epikurus wrote:
This has been a clear issue with the last few system defence battles but trying to find a solution for it is very hard.


Then u guys shoulda helped laney and smook with enaluri and you woulda had an au tz a pretty fking good one at that


You've said that twice now as if you expect repetition to make it true. Given that those guys didn't turn up for small affairs like the defence of Innia what makes you think they would have provided any kind of reliable AU tz in Okkamon?

Edit - actually, I may have my dates all wrong. Was Enaluri before or after Innia?

Enaluri was first then Innia.
Epikurus
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2014-07-26 14:55:45 UTC
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
Epikurus wrote:
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
Epikurus wrote:
This has been a clear issue with the last few system defence battles but trying to find a solution for it is very hard.


Then u guys shoulda helped laney and smook with enaluri and you woulda had an au tz a pretty fking good one at that


You've said that twice now as if you expect repetition to make it true. Given that those guys didn't turn up for small affairs like the defence of Innia what makes you think they would have provided any kind of reliable AU tz in Okkamon?

Edit - actually, I may have my dates all wrong. Was Enaluri before or after Innia?

Enaluri was first then Innia.


Oops. That would be why they weren't there for the Innia fight then! Mea culpa.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-07-26 15:04:56 UTC
Subsparx wrote:
Does anyone have any numbers like what Veskrashen posted but from the Oicx campaign? I'm curious how the damage done compares, as that was quite a heavy fight as well.

Oicx, from 07 March - 16 March 2014. This would be Oicx round 2, basically. If you can give me an idea of the start date of the campaign to take Oicx the first time (which fell on 05 March), I'm happy to run those numbers as well.

1. 280 Gallente vs. 320 Caldari plus 350 random neutrals.
2. 1473 pilots lost 3375 ships and 375 pods, totaling 48 Billion in losses.
3. Gallente lost a little over half of the 1275 ships fielded, for a total of 12.15 Billion.
4. Caldari lost about 70% of the 1375 ships fielded, for a total of 15.1 Billion.
5. Neutrals actually got hammered pretty hard this time around, losing about 1/3 of ships fielded for 6B in losses.

The numbers don't add up quite right and I'm not entirely sure why, but are largely in line with the Okkamon campaign in terms of total pilots involved and total ships / pods destroyed. The numbers were a lot closer in Oicx than Okkamon, with 280 vs. 320 in Oicx and 250 vs. 425 in Okkamon. Total isk value of losses was also much higher in Okkamon, as both sides were fielding much shinier and larger fleet comps on average - all talk of derptrons and derplins aside - and both sides generally had boosts in system as well.

You can generate these reports by going here. Then, put the system name in the appropriate box, set the time from 00:00 to 23:59, and then click the little "+" button to the right. Add another day, and so on and so forth.

The difficult part is sorting the corps / alliances into the appropriate teams, which can take a while, but once that's done you're golden.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-07-26 15:23:16 UTC
Oicx, 02 March - 06 March. This is Oicx Round 1.

1. 1100 pilots lost 2200 ships and 300 pods, totaling 42.5 Billion isk.
2. 157 Gallente vs 262 Caldari, plus 400 neutrals. I put TEST and BNI in the neutral category.
3. Gallente lost half of the 600 ships fielded, totaling 9.2 Billion - including one dread.
4. Caldari losses were again around 73% of the 775 ships fielded, totaling 19.3 Billion.
5. Neutrals including BNI and TEST lost half of the 650 ships fielded, totaling 7 Billion.
6. If we add TEST to CalMil and leave BNI neutral, we get 315 pilots for Caldari, a loss rate of 75%, and 20 billion in losses.

Definitely hurt for your side.

One thing I'm noticing is that even when outnumbered - which is pretty much always - the Gallente tend to inflict a much higher loss ratio on their opponents.

In other words...

... DAMN we're good!

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#55 - 2014-07-26 15:34:20 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:

One thing I'm noticing is that even when outnumbered - which is pretty much always - the Gallente tend to inflict a much higher loss ratio on their opponents.
AND we fly only derp atrons. This is why CCP considers it an exploit if we get into real ships. Talk about lopsided k:d ratios. Off the charts!
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#56 - 2014-07-26 15:47:01 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:
I didn't say anything about your pilots. And you Black Fox Marauders guys don't have a whole lot of room to talk when Crimson Serpent stomps you in the vast majority of small gang engagements.

Joining you guys would be a downgrade.


You may want to actually go look at the killboards before making statements that are easily proven false.

On top of that you guys aren't as active (or aren't pvping as much) as we are so there really isn't a whole lot of direct small gang engagements between YNOT and Crimson Serpent.

Size on the corps are pretty close (you guys have more atm), so comparing killboards should show you guys stomping us on kills, isk efficiency and BC points, right?

[Removed Killboard Links. They are only allowed in Crime and Punishment. -ISD Dorrim Barstorlode]

Having a hard time finding you on the recent corps on BC

JUSTK is recruiting
Castnicke Rinah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2014-07-26 16:01:44 UTC
Damn, I am so hard right now.
Veronica Isagar
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#58 - 2014-07-26 16:07:15 UTC
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:
I didn't say anything about your pilots. And you Black Fox Marauders guys don't have a whole lot of room to talk when Crimson Serpent stomps you in the vast majority of small gang engagements.

Joining you guys would be a downgrade.



I have a lot of room to talk, Crimson serpent, didn't really stomp much.

come to me when you have some credible numbers to work with.

Enjoy

BLACK FOX is RECRUITING
Rahelis
Doomheim
#59 - 2014-07-26 16:34:08 UTC
Nice to see the gal-cal warzone active and vibrant in summer time!
Epikurus
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2014-07-26 16:51:33 UTC
Veskrashen - a minor point on interpreting that data. Summing the participants across multiple days can be very misleading in terms of showing who outnumbered who and by how much. If one side field the same 100 guys everyday for four days the report for that period will show 100 pilots on that side. If the other side fields 75 a day for four days but a different 75 each day the four day report will show 300 pilots on that side, giving the illusion that they outnumbered the first side.

Obviously, the Caldari did actually outnumber the Gallente in Okkamon but the margin is far smaller than the 450/250 suggests. Taking things a day at a time we find:

21st - 122/80
22nd - 143/111
23rd - 170/140
24th - 195/168

And for that 4 day period the overall count is 345/223. Putting these numbers together gives a pretty interesting, albeit not terribly surprising, picture.