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Is this harassment?

First post
Author
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-07-26 15:40:57 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
<------

Amarr theology is part of EVE canon. It's accepted when someone clicks on the EULA.

I guarantee you that as players we can't invent any role-play theme we want. You can't, for example, be a group of role-players with the same exact name as a RL group that persecutes race or religion XYZ.

The rhetoric in the log, especially the line I've quoted, appears to be poorly conceived parody of an RL religion. I think it crosses the line. I think special care should be taken not to cross that line.

(I don't think that's a lot to ask).

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#42 - 2014-07-26 15:42:01 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
lol, it's got nothing to do with the caps and you know it. It's the intent of the aggressor. The intent was clear, to generate more tears from an already upset player.

So this is about morals? Please keep your social justice bullshit out of the game, I enjoy being a ****. In fact, I don't even agree with the ToS rules about racism and homophobia etc. While I understand their importance, I also feel they limit the potential of the game. i.e stop holding people's hands and let the players serve their own justice to people they hate.

Rules about RL harassment should remain, ofc.


The wild west is dead, deal with it.


Video games.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2014-07-26 15:42:35 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
The miner called the ganker "******" in caps, even before "Lord" was mentioned.

Also, RP-ing and using "the Lord" as some kind of presence that motivates your actions is not really something you'd put under "harassment".

So let's get real here, if anyone should be reported, then it would be the miner. Since the ganker didn't say anything abusive in the chat... And ganking a miner is hardly something you'd get banned for, since that is part of EVE.

Cursing at another player is harassment? Explain to me why that is. I think you don't understand the word "abusive".

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#44 - 2014-07-26 15:42:46 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Hitting someone that rants violently in a bar isn't harassment, which doesn't mean it's not against other rules
What about if you heard about a guy in a bar that gets really upset and rants when you go and hit him in a bar, so you then go to that bar and hit him. Would that be harassment? Because that's what happened here. The aggressor didn't stumble upon someone and attack them, they specifically hunted them down because they knew they would be able to push them over the edge.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Arcelian
0nus
#45 - 2014-07-26 15:44:33 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
If CODE ganks you, and you give them tears, they are going to come back. It's entertainment. Is that harassment?
If they know the target is already clearly upset and their intent is to upset them further, then yes, according to CCPs rules that's not allowed. Most CODE players though don't target a specific person like that, they fly around targeting anyone in their area.

Arcelian wrote:
You are also assuming code gives a flying f*ck about eve or the player base. They are in it for the isk, they are in it for the lulz. And it's so sad to see all the sheep either join them, or give in to them.
I'm not assuming anything. CODE was originally founded on principles of preventing "bot aspirant behaviour" from multiboxers, and to stop mining in high sec beign a 100% safe activity. As it's progressed there certainly are many trolls that have simply joined as an excuse to gank (like an excuse is needed What?). I'd be very surprised if people that put as much time into this game as they do don't give "a flying f*ck about eve".



Code players target whoever, true, but they are much less likely to come back and do a repeat gank if the victim, is silent, or just says gf and leaves it at that. Tears are entertainment. Any sort of interaction is entertainment. The moment you go all rage on them, that's when they add you as a contact and put you on the special list. Because you are a fun victim.

lol, you really think CODE is about stopping bot aspirant behavior? HAHAHAHAAHAH. No. It's about extorting money from "mining permits". You pay them isk, they give you a permit that's good for a month or some crap, and you can bot/mine however you want. It's not about bots, it's about money.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#46 - 2014-07-26 15:45:53 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
The miner called the ganker "******" in caps, even before "Lord" was mentioned.

Also, RP-ing and using "the Lord" as some kind of presence that motivates your actions is not really something you'd put under "harassment".

So let's get real here, if anyone should be reported, then it would be the miner. Since the ganker didn't say anything abusive in the chat... And ganking a miner is hardly something you'd get banned for, since that is part of EVE.

Cursing at another player is harassment? Explain to me why that is. I think you don't understand the word "abusive".

Exactly, if cursing is not abusive. How can you argue that using "Lord" is somehow abusive?

Basically, there is no abuse in the mentioned case. Case closed.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#47 - 2014-07-26 15:46:36 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
So let's get real here, if anyone should be reported, then it would be the miner. Since the ganker didn't say anything abusive in the chat... And ganking a miner is hardly something you'd get banned for, since that is part of EVE.
This reminds me so much of the E1 thing, with Sohkar throwing racial abuse, and who got banned in that situation? Here, I'll paraphrase:

Quote:
So let's get real here, if anyone should be reported, then it would be Sohkar. Since Erotica 1 didn't say anything abusive in the channel... And scamming a carebear is hardly something you'd get banned for, since that is part of EVE.


The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Maekchu
Doomheim
#48 - 2014-07-26 15:50:21 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
So let's get real here, if anyone should be reported, then it would be the miner. Since the ganker didn't say anything abusive in the chat... And ganking a miner is hardly something you'd get banned for, since that is part of EVE.
This reminds me so much of the E1 thing, with Sohkar throwing racial abuse, and who got banned in that situation? Here, I'll paraphrase:

Quote:
So let's get real here, if anyone should be reported, then it would be Sohkar. Since Erotica 1 didn't say anything abusive in the channel... And scamming a carebear is hardly something you'd get banned for, since that is part of EVE.


I don't quite think we have the same exact scenario, as in the Erotica 1.

The ganker just writes some random RP lines. We can hardly call this harassment. And if it does, then we should be equally feel harass for being called a "******" and a "crazy psycho".

This case, is just so weak and I don't see why we are talking about it. :D
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#49 - 2014-07-26 15:50:27 UTC
CCP was manipulated by a meta-gamer. Ripard was the biggest scammer of us all.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-07-26 15:50:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Sibyyl
Maekchu wrote:
Exactly, if cursing is not abusive. How can you argue that using "Lord" is somehow abusive?

Basically, there is no abuse in the mentioned case. Case closed.

Curse words aren't censored in Local.

The use of "Lord" alone isn't abusive. When a line seems to imply that "Lord" thinks you are "scum", it is unclear if the person is crossing a RL line and making comments as a RL religious person.

Let me explain to you why it crosses the line. I personally think players should blow each other up, non-consensually as much as possible. In-game role-play that is poorly thought out to be an unmistakable parody of an RL religion puts a confusing tone on the entire matter. It invites scrutiny of harassment, it invites commentary on whether the PVP itself has something to do with a person's RL religion and beliefs.

I think that kind of controversy detracts from EVE as an enjoyable game, and it gives the so-called victim an excuse to have a legitimate gripe against the whole thing.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#51 - 2014-07-26 15:50:56 UTC
This event took place in hisec. The 'victim' was not the subject of a suicide gank, as their mighty killer whale was harpooned by a single T1 frigate. They were not under wardec.

What does this mean? They picked up the gun. They pointed it at Faylee. They pulled the trigger. Faylee then had the right to self-defense. Provoked? Perhaps, but ultimately the alleged victim is the one who first escalated to violence here.

Anyone who actually reads the threads on the forums knows full well that actions and words on here can have a wide range of in-game consequences ranging from simple mockery to suicide ganks to full blown wardecs. This is nothing new, this is nothing outrageous. Hell, avoiding consequences like this are a major reason why so many folks use npc forum alts when they wish to say something that might not be taken well by the more hardline members of the community.

Y'all need to chill out a bit. Yes, someone's butt got hurt to the point where reconstructive surgery will be required to keep them from crapping pancakes for the rest of their life... but they themselves could have prevented it from happening by NOT escalating matters to violence.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#52 - 2014-07-26 15:52:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Lucas Kell wrote:
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Hitting someone that rants violently in a bar isn't harassment, which doesn't mean it's not against other rules
What about if you heard about a guy in a bar that gets really upset and rants when you go and hit him in a bar, so you then go to that bar and hit him. Would that be harassment? Because that's what happened here. The aggressor didn't stumble upon someone and attack them, they specifically hunted them down because they knew they would be able to push them over the edge.

you are missing the part about this NOT being a gank,
it was a limited engagement ,
the orca Pilot chose to engage.


Edit: Dame it Omar! ****ninjaBlink
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#53 - 2014-07-26 15:52:52 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
I don't quite think we have the same exact scenario, as in the Erotica 1.

The ganker just writes some random RP lines. We can hardly call this harassment. And if it does, then we should be equally feel harass for being called a "******" and a "crazy psycho".

This case, is just so weak and I don't see why we are talking about it. :D
I think we may have our lines crossed here. The harassment isn't the aggressor talking about "the lord", it's that he saw that a guy was very upset about being ganked then specifically hunted him down to make him more upset. Supposedly what Erotica 1 did to get banned was upsetting a player who was already upset. According to CCP you are not allowed to purposely upset a player who you already know is upset as that is harassment.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#54 - 2014-07-26 15:53:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Belt Scout
Meh. People need to accept that this is part of the game. Once they understand the concept of a single shard sandbox game, then they can decide if they enjoy it or would rather leave. I've been ganked before. My choice is to throw a gf up in local, pass the KR to my main toon and go hunting. My competition ganked me when I was flying a Mack once, so I let it go like I didn't know who they were. Three weeks later, I bagged that pilot flying his mission runner. He must have forgot about the KR, but I sure didn't. Twisted

Anything that happens INSIDE the game is ok for the most part. Things that go on OUTSIDE the game, and bring CCP into a bad light such as the whole E1 thing, are a completely different situation.

.

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-07-26 15:54:18 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
CCP was manipulated by a meta-gamer. Ripard was the biggest scammer of us all.

Many of us argued that the person yelling RL threats at E1 should have been the real target of the ban. This was drowned out by screams for a witchhunt, however.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#56 - 2014-07-26 15:54:18 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
you are missing the part about this NOT being a gank,
it was a limited engagement ,
the orca Pilot chose to engage.
Yes, I'm sure the newbie target was not at all baited into attacking.
Remember, Sohkar was not forced to go into the bonus room, he "chose to engage".

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lady Areola Fappington
#57 - 2014-07-26 15:54:53 UTC
Arcelian wrote:

lol, you really think CODE is about stopping bot aspirant behavior? HAHAHAHAAHAH. No. It's about extorting money from "mining permits". You pay them isk, they give you a permit that's good for a month or some crap, and you can bot/mine however you want. It's not about bots, it's about money.



You want to get real technical, it's about generating funny stories to post online, providing content that people feel is worth donating ISK for. Mining permits are a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of CODE income. The vast majority of the time, the agent selling the permit themselves just keeps the ISK, in trust that they'll use it to fund more ganks. It doesn't even go to "CODE Central" to be figured into the income streams.

As for the topic, I think it's crossing the line a little ways. People like to forget about the RL/ EVE divide. Calling your target a cheap Gallente hooker, or swearing a bloody jihad on all Sibestor scum=OK. Calling your target a disgusting ******* ******** ***** and wishing death on them RL=Not OK.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-07-26 15:56:02 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Yes, I'm sure the newbie target was not at all baited into attacking.
Remember, Sohkar was not forced to go into the bonus room, he "chose to engage".

And in both your examples, the victim alone is responsible for what's happening to them.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#59 - 2014-07-26 15:58:20 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
you are missing the part about this NOT being a gank,
it was a limited engagement ,
the orca Pilot chose to engage.
Yes, I'm sure the newbie target was not at all baited into attacking.
Remember, Sohkar was not forced to go into the bonus room, he "chose to engage".

that toon is from 2007.11.02
One could safely assume they were aware of the aggression mechanics.
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#60 - 2014-07-26 15:58:48 UTC
ITT: socially inept psychopaths defending other socially inept psychopaths.

/popcorn

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."