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Is this harassment?

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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#21 - 2014-07-26 15:07:24 UTC
Ugh, let me reword that. What I mean is, if players disagree with racism and homophobia, they should use in-game tools to oppose it, rather than relying on CCP to govern it.

Oh god.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#22 - 2014-07-26 15:10:49 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
you know what we do lucas, she was calling for nerfs over a baisc engagement on the forums, we are free to do something about it if we feel like it.

Had the lot of us stalked her for say a week following and violanced anything she undocked in you might have a point but this is nothing.

now id recommend you leave it unless you want the next few whiny threads to be your responsibility.
Yeah, I know what you do, and that's fine. You want to go blow people up, that's the game. This is different though, since you (or the aggressor) specifically targetted this person because they were already upset with the intent of making them more upset. According to CCP that is not allowed. If someone is getting upset you have an obligation to stop before crossing the line. In this case that didn't happen, they were already at their breaking point and you jump in and harass them to push them as far over the edge as you can get them.

And go ahead, tell me about how you are going to dedicate killing to me like you guys seem to be doing lately. I'm not going to be pressured into not having an opinion because you are going to threaten some random noobs. So put the bunny back in the box, or rip it's head off. Either way it's irrelevant to me.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
That's exactly what this is over and you know it
You got it, this is all about irrational hatred of caps. Roll

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Arcelian
0nus
#23 - 2014-07-26 15:11:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Arcelian
Lucas Kell wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
If that was harassment, all of CODE would be banned.
I dunno, normally the code guys are hitting targets of opportunity, though often they do take it "too far" by the new definition. This is a bit further than that though, since the aggressor specifically targeted someone they knew was already upset with the intention of upsetting them further. The only intention was to wind this player up, and it wouldn't surprise me if they stop playing following this. So net gain: 0, net loss: 1 sub. Worth it, totally worth it.


If CODE ganks you, and you give them tears, they are going to come back. It's entertainment. Is that harassment?

You are also assuming code gives a flying f*ck about eve or the player base. They are in it for the isk, they are in it for the lulz. And it's so sad to see all the sheep either join them, or give in to them.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#24 - 2014-07-26 15:11:31 UTC
Just keep in mind that with some of the ridiculously overzealous internet bullying legislation being passed in some places in the U.S. behavior like this could result in CCP having no choice but to ban you if the player takes it seriously.

Carebearing has more support from reality than anything we can BS around.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-07-26 15:13:00 UTC
Hmz, might want to contact "Mr blanked-out" how he has a batphone to lead GM, could be a nice fast way for my petitions to be handled P

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#26 - 2014-07-26 15:16:47 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
So this is about morals? Please keep your social justice bullshit out of the game, I enjoy being a ****. In fact, I don't even agree with the ToS rules about racism and homophobia etc. While I understand their importance, I also feel they limit the potential of the game. i.e stop holding people's hands and let the players serve their own justice to people they hate.

Rules about RL harassment should remain, ofc.
lol, it's not about being a social justice warrior. CCPs rules stated that if a player is clearly upset you have an obligation to stop, not push them further. It's not about social justice, it's about making sure that the game which is built for entertainment remains entertaining, and that people aren't pushed out of the game because some antisocial basement dweller feels a power surge when making people upset on the internet.

Now I, like you, would prefer it if the games rules were far more relaxed, and that if people got upset, they should HTFU, but from a business perspective, that simply doesn't work. What you end up with is a game dominated by trolls pushing away the majority of gamers leading to a stagnant population. CCP have made it clear that they won't tolerate harassment that crosses the line (which is arbitrarily drawn by them), and from what I've seen before, this is across that line.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#27 - 2014-07-26 15:21:00 UTC
Arcelian wrote:
If CODE ganks you, and you give them tears, they are going to come back. It's entertainment. Is that harassment?
If they know the target is already clearly upset and their intent is to upset them further, then yes, according to CCPs rules that's not allowed. Most CODE players though don't target a specific person like that, they fly around targeting anyone in their area.

Arcelian wrote:
You are also assuming code gives a flying f*ck about eve or the player base. They are in it for the isk, they are in it for the lulz. And it's so sad to see all the sheep either join them, or give in to them.
I'm not assuming anything. CODE was originally founded on principles of preventing "bot aspirant behaviour" from multiboxers, and to stop mining in high sec beign a 100% safe activity. As it's progressed there certainly are many trolls that have simply joined as an excuse to gank (like an excuse is needed What?). I'd be very surprised if people that put as much time into this game as they do don't give "a flying f*ck about eve".

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#28 - 2014-07-26 15:21:48 UTC
Andski wrote:
Domina Trix wrote:
Just remember folks, this is what the new Producer wants us to promote to keep new players in the game...


what, raging entitled carebears?

Are we talking about Goonswarm? Or are you unaware of history?
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-07-26 15:22:27 UTC
This is where it goes too far
Quote:
You are scum in the eyes of the Lord.


I think this could have been phrased differently, to make it clear that it's an in-game role-play occurring and not RL judgment.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-07-26 15:26:35 UTC
I suppose we all can agree that it was the miner that was being abusive, right?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#31 - 2014-07-26 15:27:16 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
This is where it goes too far
Quote:
You are scum in the eyes of the Lord.

I think this could have been phrased differently, to make it clear that it's an in-game role-play occurring and not RL judgment.

Meh. If anything, that's the line that makes it clear that it's in-game role-play on his part. vOv
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
#32 - 2014-07-26 15:31:00 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
lol, it's got nothing to do with the caps and you know it. It's the intent of the aggressor. The intent was clear, to generate more tears from an already upset player.

So this is about morals? Please keep your social justice bullshit out of the game, I enjoy being a ****. In fact, I don't even agree with the ToS rules about racism and homophobia etc. While I understand their importance, I also feel they limit the potential of the game. i.e stop holding people's hands and let the players serve their own justice to people they hate.

Rules about RL harassment should remain, ofc.


Just remember folks, the players themselves are the new way of EvE retaining new players...

Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-07-26 15:32:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
This is where it goes too far
Quote:
You are scum in the eyes of the Lord.

I think this could have been phrased differently, to make it clear that it's an in-game role-play occurring and not RL judgment.

Meh. If anything, that's the line that makes it clear that it's in-game role-play on his part. vOv

It would be unfortunate if the victim happened to actually be religious in real life and construe it as an assault on his core beliefs and outlook for life.

No, I think the role-play should endeavor to be more original so as not to accidentally trigger RL feelings of religious persecution or offense. Why is "Lord" capitalized? Are we talking about omnipotence or creation being a part of the in-game roleplay? Is "Lord" being used as a title?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-07-26 15:34:28 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
I suppose we all can agree that it was the miner that was being abusive, right?

Go read the E1 threadnaught, and then let me know how "we can all agree" about your statement here.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#35 - 2014-07-26 15:34:55 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

It would be unfortunate if the victim happened to actually be religious in real life and construe it as an assault on his core beliefs and outlook for life.

No, I think the role-play should endeavor to be more original so as not to accidentally trigger RL feelings of religious persecution or offense. Why is "Lord" capitalized? Are we talking about omnipotence or creation being a part of the in-game roleplay? Is "Lord" being used as a title?

<------

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#36 - 2014-07-26 15:35:58 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

No, I think the role-play should endeavor to be more original so as not to accidentally trigger RL feelings of religious persecution or offense. Why is "Lord" capitalized? Are we talking about omnipotence or creation being a part of the in-game roleplay? Is "Lord" being used as a title?


Amarr lore does a fine job of that right from the start. Anything players throw in is pretty subpar after that.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-07-26 15:37:39 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
lol, it's got nothing to do with the caps and you know it. It's the intent of the aggressor. The intent was clear, to generate more tears from an already upset player.

So this is about morals? Please keep your social justice bullshit out of the game, I enjoy being a ****. In fact, I don't even agree with the ToS rules about racism and homophobia etc. While I understand their importance, I also feel they limit the potential of the game. i.e stop holding people's hands and let the players serve their own justice to people they hate.

Rules about RL harassment should remain, ofc.


The wild west is dead, deal with it.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#38 - 2014-07-26 15:38:15 UTC
Domina Trix wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
lol, it's got nothing to do with the caps and you know it. It's the intent of the aggressor. The intent was clear, to generate more tears from an already upset player.

So this is about morals? Please keep your social justice bullshit out of the game, I enjoy being a ****. In fact, I don't even agree with the ToS rules about racism and homophobia etc. While I understand their importance, I also feel they limit the potential of the game. i.e stop holding people's hands and let the players serve their own justice to people they hate.

Rules about RL harassment should remain, ofc.


Just remember folks, the players themselves are the new way of EvE retaining new players...

There's nothing new about that. I just want to enhance the experience with a virtual oh no you didn't just say that.

Oh god.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#39 - 2014-07-26 15:38:55 UTC
This is not harassment, that is the meta of EVE. In a way it relates to people fearing repercussions and posting with alts which in its way incites the discussion to ban NPC corps from posting in certain forums etc.. etc .. bla bla bla...

Thing is, everything has consequences in EVE, you post with your char, not with your account and therefore must live with the consequences.

I have been wardecced for posting - so what. There have been issues of harassment, but those are a different category all together and become personal, not just about a char, a ship, a wardec etc.. I have been on the receiving end of that too and took steps .. more information is prohibited by the rules.

To me this is a small breath of justice, someone ranted and got called out for it. If you want to be and play anonymous do so, don't blame others if you fail to do so.

You can pick targets hower you choose to, if its forum ranting so be it. Hitting someone that rants violently in a bar isn't harassment, which doesn't mean it's not against other rules, but following them home, stalking days on end. making life miserable, interfearing just with a thought, making ppl paranoid .. that's more like harassment. And this has not been done...yet.

And checking in which system he is mining, well, thats like looking at which table the fool is sitting. And the rest isn't even harassment, that was just normal rules of engagement and being dumb as f***.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-07-26 15:40:09 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
I suppose we all can agree that it was the miner that was being abusive, right?

Go read the E1 threadnaught, and then let me know how "we can all agree" about your statement here.

The miner called the ganker "******" in caps, even before "Lord" was mentioned.

Also, RP-ing and using "the Lord" as some kind of presence that motivates your actions is not really something you'd put under "harassment".

So let's get real here, if anyone should be reported, then it would be the miner. Since the ganker didn't say anything abusive in the chat... And ganking a miner is hardly something you'd get banned for, since that is part of EVE.