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Eve's new executive producer

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polly papercut
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-07-25 23:32:05 UTC
"The massively-multiplayer online game set in space, Eve Online, recently got a new executive producer, and she wants to empower the game's existing players so they can help bring new players to the game."

Does she not know that the EVE player base is WHY new players do not stick around?

"The shift of power to the players is also a sign of Nordgren putting faith in the community's"

This is one naive person.

Read the full story here http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/25/5935863/eve-online-andie-nordgren

CCP needs to add more content both for PVP and PVE, SOV needs a rework missions need to be revamped and not so dull.
Many Many things need to be done by CCP to the core of the game to keep the new players in the Game.
Keeping it up to the players to do so is laughable.
I personally think leaving it up to the player base the game will become even more niche than it already is.

As much as people like to ***** about players who Rat and do Incursions and missions and INDY
Those activities is why EVE even has an economy in the first place
If it was up to the EVE player base they would make the game Pure pvp and full time gank fest.

Without Indy we will have no ships to fly, without incursion runners and missioners / ratters we would have no ISK for people to buy ships and if people did not buy ships we would not have INDY players taking the time to make the ships.
PLEX would be worthless because noone would have ISK to buy them.

The Content that is going to keep a new player active is not going to be player driven content it is going to be ISK driven content. Once the new players have some ISK to gamble with and a solid feel for the game then they will turn towards PVP, it needs to be a progression thing.

If CCP thinks New Players will stay based on player made content they are out of their minds and we will continue to see lower numbers online over the next few years.

What are your thoughts on how to keep EVE growing and get new players to stay?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-07-25 23:34:22 UTC
polly papercut wrote:


Does she not know that the EVE player base is WHY new players do not stick around?


Those are the ones that were going to leave anyway, regardless of the player base. There is an argument that many new players DO stick around because of the player base. Players like myself are proof of that argument.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-07-25 23:37:00 UTC
"Currently we have two big power blocks that are kind of locked in a struggle. I want hundreds of story-lines going on between many more entities in the game. That's what we're trying to build with all the new features." - Andie Nordgren via this article at polygon

So, opening the API to additional data sources and looking for more 3rd party tools is going to do that? Really? Do tell...

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#4 - 2014-07-25 23:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
polly papercut wrote:
What are your thoughts on how to keep EVE growing and get new players to stay?

More player-made content. After all, the community and its escapades are what brings people to the game and makes them stay these days.

Oh and…
Quote:
As much as people like to ***** about players who Rat and do Incursions and missions and INDY
Those activities is why EVE even has an economy in the first place
If it was up to the EVE player base they would make the game Pure pvp and full time gank fest.
No-on particularly bitches about players who do any of those things. People ***** about carebears, who are wholly unnecessary for the economy and who keep refusing to accept the simple fact that the game is PvP through and through.

Hiply Rustic wrote:
So, opening the API to additional data sources and looking for more 3rd party tools is going to do that? Really? Do tell...

Who said they would?
polly papercut
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-07-25 23:37:33 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
polly papercut wrote:


Does she not know that the EVE player base is WHY new players do not stick around?


Those are the ones that were going to leave anyway, regardless of the player base. There is an argument that many new players DO stick around because of the player base. Players like myself are proof of that argument.


That is not 100% true and is pure speculation. And even if it was true, Why not work to keep both types of players?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-07-25 23:40:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
polly papercut wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
polly papercut wrote:


Does she not know that the EVE player base is WHY new players do not stick around?


Those are the ones that were going to leave anyway, regardless of the player base. There is an argument that many new players DO stick around because of the player base. Players like myself are proof of that argument.


That is not 100% true and is pure speculation. And even if it was true, Why not work to keep both types of players?


It's not speculation at all, and it's provable. I can prove it and answer your question at the same time - because catering to the weak who think EVE should be a theme park means making it one, which means EVE is better off without those kinds of players anyway, and they are the ones who are going to quit unless the game is made into the themepark they want. Because it's not a theme park, they were always going to quit, be it sooner or later.

Anyone that can handle EVE as it is, ie. the game's intended audience, will stick around.

Why should base jumpers cater to skydivers that don't want to jump from such low altitudes?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
polly papercut
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-07-25 23:46:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
polly papercut wrote:
What are your thoughts on how to keep EVE growing and get new players to stay?

More player-made content. After all, the community and its escapades are what brings people to the game and makes them stay these days.

This is true but how quickly do these new players find out they are not going to jump into these big battles they read about on the internet?
They need something that will keep they busy for the first few months of game play until they are able and ready to jump into the big power struggle fights.

Player driven content is great I agree but I see no reason to not try to retain more than one kind of player to EVE.
My point in player driven content being one of the reasons new players leave are things like recruitment scams , ganking , market escrow scams, contract scams, Bonus room/ isk doubling scams ect are all examples of "player driven content"

These are things that (most) players who are vetted into the game know how to avoid and spot very easy.
Most other games out there will not allow scams so when a new player sees someone offering up double isk in any other game that would be pretty risk free. They either scam you and you get your money back via petition or they pay out.

Know i am very aware that "this is EVE and not (insert any other mmo here) so go back to XYZ game.
I personally have no issues seeing players from other MMOS come to EVE, but they need time to adapt and most player driven content is not something new players can jump right into.

CCP needs to rework the NPE
I think the mittani had a write up on this or who ever it was the article was pretty spot on.
polly papercut
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-07-25 23:48:22 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


It's not speculation at all, and it's provable.


Do tell
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#9 - 2014-07-25 23:49:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
polly papercut wrote:
This is true but how quickly do these new players find out they are not going to jump into these big battles they read about on the internet?

Why not? There's very little stopping them.

Quote:
My point in player driven content being one of the reasons new players leave are things like recruitment scams , ganking , market escrow scams, contract scams, Bonus room/ isk doubling scams ect are all examples of "player driven content"
…none of which actually affect new users to any greater degree, and all of which only drive away players who have no interest in EVE.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-07-25 23:52:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
polly papercut wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


It's not speculation at all, and it's provable.


Do tell


I just did. Pay attention now, because I'm only going to cover this once more. If you still don't get it, then I suggest taking a rudimentary marketing class.

EVE has an intended audience. Those outside of it who try the game will most likely quit, at one point or another. Some of them will actually discover they like it, and become the intended audience. But most people not in that intended audience were always going to quit, sooner or later. Are you understanding yet? What I'm seeing when you say "why not cater to both" is akin to saying, "the movie Terminator should have more ponies and rainbows to cater more to young girls and then they'd sell more DVDs."

Change the game, and you change the audience. If you try to satisfy multiple audiences, you will only end up disappointing them instead.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-07-25 23:53:44 UTC

Actually, there are a lot of nice players in this game. Sure there are many that are complete asshats (love that British saying) and will rob you blind and then some, but not everyone is that way. Since I have played this game I have encountered helpful, patient, and even eager players looking to improve the experience of a new player like myself. I have been invited to mining corps and taught some of the ropes, given help and assistance by a professional ganker, invited to a fun roleplaying corp that made faction warfare a tad more interesting despite all my losses, and have even seen the undercurrent of the game through its espionage activities that remain behind closed doors. I have been willingly invited to these experiences by players that trusted me, and it felt damn good to be trusted and given an insight into what other players had in mind. These players are eager to share their version of the game to new players!

The people that play this game aren't evil, cruel, or full blown sociopaths (though there are many that act that way and some that perhaps are) but actually really kind folks with amazing hearts. I've been given isk just so I could keep chucking in pvp, and encouraged to keep on pushing in pvp despite feeling frustrated and upset that I couldn't win, so many people here care about others and its amazing to me. It wasn't really what I was expecting because underneath all the cold brash dealings in EVE there is a warm loving culture of people that will happily help you if you dare take them up on it.

I am fully behind the Devs on giving vets tools to recruit new players, they SHOULD allow the community the ability to pull in new players to encourage others. Why not? What's wrong with that?

It's just pixels in the end of the day here folks. And I know you people are mostly awesome and frankly I love getting to know you guys, even if I don't always personally have the best tact when handling my affairs in game. I realize there is a very serious political climate in the game and nullsec alliances with ships worth ridiculous amounts that aren't going to just trust someone like me off the bat.

Anyway, yeah...that's my little rant.
polly papercut
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-07-26 00:00:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:

No-on particularly bitches about players who do any of those things. People ***** about carebears, who are wholly unnecessary for the economy and who keep refusing to accept the simple fact that the game is PvP through and through.


So you are implying that the carebears are not necessary to the economy what so ever?
If we were to take and remove every carebear from the game the EVE economy would be as active and as diverse as it is now?

Think hard about this one though in this case we can not convert carebears to PVPers we would have to think about the effect it would have on the economy if every carebear account was to be ban from EVE.

What would happen with the loss of money to CCP? Plex would also become less desirable, Pure indy players would also be removed. Please give me a scenario with current game mechanics the way they are on how the economy would look with all these players gone from EVE.

PVP does not generate ISK nor Does it generate ships. So again without changing any game mechanics draw me out the scenario with all carebears ban from EVE.
Nose' Feliciano
#13 - 2014-07-26 00:05:01 UTC
One question: Does she play EVE regularly?

Remodeled Crane Concept
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#14 - 2014-07-26 00:08:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
polly papercut wrote:
So you are implying that the carebears are not necessary to the economy what so ever?
No, I'm flat out stating it as a fact.
They do not fill any unique and necessary function and could be excised wholly without any real adverse effect (well… maybe the forums would get a bit more boring, but that's about it… and that's not part of the game economy anyway so it's rather besides the point). Anything and everything they do can be — and already is — done by non-carebears, commonly to a much greater effect, efficiency, and volume than the carebears can muster.

Quote:
Pure indy players would also be removed.
No, they would not. Just the carebears among them.

Quote:
PVP does not generate ISK nor Does it generate ships.
It does both, actually.
Paranoid Loyd
#15 - 2014-07-26 00:10:02 UTC
polly papercut wrote:
Tippia wrote:

No-on particularly bitches about players who do any of those things. People ***** about carebears, who are wholly unnecessary for the economy and who keep refusing to accept the simple fact that the game is PvP through and through.


So you are implying that the carebears are not necessary to the economy what so ever?
If we were to take and remove every carebear from the game the EVE economy would be as active and as diverse as it is now?

Think hard about this one though in this case we can not convert carebears to PVPers we would have to think about the effect it would have on the economy if every carebear account was to be ban from EVE.

What would happen with the loss of money to CCP? Plex would also become less desirable, Pure indy players would also be removed. Please give me a scenario with current game mechanics the way they are on how the economy would look with all these players gone from EVE.

PVP does not generate ISK nor Does it generate ships. So again without changing any game mechanics draw me out the scenario with all carebears ban from EVE.


You seem to be implying carebear = industrialist. This is not the case.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Marsha Mallow
#16 - 2014-07-26 00:11:08 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Sure there are many that are complete asshats (love that British saying) and will rob you blind and then some, but not everyone is that way.

Actually we'd say... well it would involve arses and holes, and I'd like officially protest this ballgag (before applied).

It's ARSE not ASS. I feel violated by this censorship, and when I can be arsed writing a letter of complaint I will. I pay subs too. Sometimes >.>

Anyway, stop playing with those filthy RPIng Coders. They sound Aussie/NZ to me = completetly off their ****. No racial slurs intended, carry on.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#17 - 2014-07-26 00:36:50 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Anyway, stop playing with those filthy RPIng Coders. They sound Aussie/NZ to me = completetly off their ****. No racial slurs intended, carry on.

Haha. If I didn't like you so much I'd feign offence to that.

I blame Loyalanon. Bastard. Must be from Melbourne.
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-07-26 00:38:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:


Hiply Rustic wrote:
So, opening the API to additional data sources and looking for more 3rd party tools is going to do that? Really? Do tell...


Who said they would?


"Today we provide a number of tools for players to get data from the game and build tools on top of that. That's really part of the experience for any established Eve player. We're working to give them further possibilities."

Now, given that the only way to give us further opportunities for tool-building is by providing us more data acquisition capabilities or hooks for us to hang 3rd party apps onto the client. As both of those things are in fact traditionally done via APIs (yes I suppose we could get some flat file data access...but...2014), I believe the answer to your questions is:

Why, Andie did.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2014-07-26 00:42:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Hiply Rustic wrote:
Why, Andie did.

Not really, no.

She just said that they're going to keep providing data access. You're the one who made the very odd leap that they're trying to create more story-lines merely by doing so — not her — so it's your own leap (or should it be lack?) of logic you're sceptical of.



    ___ said it better
vv
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#20 - 2014-07-26 00:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Hiply Rustic wrote:
Tippia wrote:


Hiply Rustic wrote:
So, opening the API to additional data sources and looking for more 3rd party tools is going to do that? Really? Do tell...


Who said they would?


Why, Andie did.

Except that doing that doesn't have to be the sum total of what Andie meant.

Generating more opportunities for content =/= only providing more API tools.

The quote even clearly identifies 3rd party tools as a part of an established players gameplay. Not the sum total and nowhere did she say from what's in the article, that CCPs entire strategy is built around that sole aspect of development.

You've extrapolated her quote into something we have no evidence she said.
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