Ships & Modules

I know CCP wanted to give each race it's own separate "flava" but there are also practical considerations:

1.) Humans will tend to move towards the best tech available with some consideration given to their resources, philosophy of war, strategies and tactics, etc. If missiles make sense, people will use them whether they are caldari or not. Caldari are Hybrid/Missile oriented and Gallente Hybrid/Drone oriented anyway...everyone should have missiles, (and moar drones for anti-drone/frigate/cruiser duty. Drones are another source of dps and force the use of resources to counter them effectively.) imo

Perhaps a certain level of engineering, mechanics, and electronics etc might in the future allow one to make limited changes in the basic chassis of ones ship to allow for bonus changes and thus more weapon/equipment choices.

2.) Humans are also pragmatic and we like backup plans that aren't back up plans. I like having alternative damage resources (source and type) especially if they operate at the same or near same range. Look at RL navies and sci-fi navies and you will see what I mean. I LIKE having missiles on mah laser boat. If some of them could be like the nuclear bomb-pumped graser warhead missiles like in david weber's honor harrington books, then so much the better, and so Amarr, imo.

(Gamma Ray Amplification By Stimulated Emission of Radiation, just swap the "gr" for the "l" in laser.)

3.) The missile hardpoints are on the ships. Unless one discovers a niche that make ignoring the hardpoint bonuses reasonable, one would be wise to ignore the non-bonused hardpoints and that is precisely what needs to change. Why put them on if it's not practical to use them? Things end up in combat ships BECAUSE they are useful to that ships mission, yes?...

I agree with this only Partly. Giving Punisher/Maller/Prophecy/Abbadon as many launchers as they have turrets (and changing bonuses from turrets to missiles) is simply going WAY too far. The simple fix (all ships retain bonuses):

Punisher gets one launcher
Maller gets two launchers
Prophecy gets Three Launchers
Abaddon gets four launchers

This helps even things up a bit between races:
Two frigs with 2/2 weapon loadout and two with 3/1 (Merlin, Tristan and Rifter, Punisher Respectively)
Two Tier 3 BSs wit active tank bonuses and only 8 turrets, and two with resist bonuses and 8 Turrets/2Launchers (Maelstrom, Hyperion and Abaddon, Rokh Respectively)
Prophecy and Maller fit in between as both have missile spewing T2 Variants, are largely unused, and could both do with a bit more DPS.

I know that the training corp I was in (OUCH) used a turrets+rocket setup on their standard student Rifter fitting (this was a pure speedtank frigate designed for light tackle work though).

because it's just better with heavies. and it's a support ship not a brawler. so not classified with the other khanid style ships.


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this thread is becoming a loop... Norris and I have basically discussed everything everyone is bringing up now earlier in the thread and more so. so please go back and read the last page, it's not a dozen page thread like some others. so it's not that difficult to not repeat the same stuff we've talked about already.

the non-cap using, extra powergrid t1 monster tanks with spitwad dps are my only hang up with this idea. just doesn't seem like ships worth creating to benefit a few. and to avoid repeating myself anymore

JUST READ THE PREVIOUS PAGE... save Norris the constant explaining of the same thing over and over.

The bonus actually works on rockets. The ship is just bad (screwed over by the tier system).

Oh HAI Norris!

Thought that the Inquisitor was a tier 3 frigate?

While the Inquisitor is a choice for Khanid style pilots it lacks the armor resistance bonus that is very Khanid and having the option of either of these two ships would not harm much. I don't think that heavily armored Punishers with rockets would eliminate the use of the higher damage rockets of the Inquisitor but do think that the Inquisitor needs to be given a 4th missile hardpoint to bring it in line with the Kestrel (Breacher need this treatment too).

Punisher should not become a bonused missile boat, to do so would remove any "good" laser frigate and would tread on too many other frigates but with the option of unbonused missiles it would allow pilots to have an option to fly tech 1 ships like their tech 2 variants and gives younger pilots the ability to train with these systems before they reach tech 2 stage.

I am also going to throw this out there as something that could be done: Coercer given 6 unbonused missile slots; not going to be useful, but I think it would let young pilots moving up the Amarr tech tree have an option at destroyer level while they are looking to get into the Khanid ships. Would only be of use for a short time for Amarr pilots who are very young if they focus on the rocket skills rather than lasers but wouldn't harm anything either. Also would make sense being it is made into the Heretic anyways.

Many of these ideas are not going to be the best options for older players like myself but would be great stepping stones for young pilots.

i think this is a lot of people's wet dream... however, it's really not going to happen, for a lot of reasons. the navy scorp has the same bonuses and can dedicate all its lows to dps while having its mids for a massive tank (yes with fewer launchers but there's a reason for it). the phoon and it's navy counterpart share the same dps bonus with the 6 launchers, and have that very slot layout a would be torp abbadon would have (again limited # of launchers for a reason), and quite simply the opportunity to make a khanid faction bs was pasted up when it came down to the navy geddon. a lot more viable and less game breaky than a khanid baddon would be. though i find myself repeating things again, the reason that the (navy)phoon and navy scorp are the closest things that we're going to get to a khanid battleship is that the raven and the CNR are the top dogs of large missiles and won't be taken out by some sacrilegious amarr battleship.

but while we're talking about how cool it would be, it really wouldn't be all that great... just fit a navy scorp. yes there's less launchers but say raise the tier and add more fitting to strap on more launchers, you still really have the same fitting space left. and quite frankly, the shield 8 mid slots on the navy scorp make it one of the best shield tanks in the game, dedication all it's lows to BCUs. it is basically a better version than any khanid bs would be ever since it doesn't sacrifice tank for dps or the other way around like an armor torp boat would (think phoon). but when was the last time you saw a navy torp scorp? let alone seen it outside of missioners that want an extra security blanket instead of the better CNR? it's a cruise missile ship, the torps simply don't get the range to be considered effect. it can't even large pos bash!

khanid bs cool. useful, not so much. & despite how much i still want one regardless of how it would be out classed by other warp in dps ships, it's never going to happen.

Hypothetical Khanid torpedo BS modeled after the Abaddon:

Slot layout
8x highs, 7x launchers (8x launchers would be too much I think).
4x med slots
7x low slots

Bonuses
5% damage torp damage per level, 5% armor resists per level.

1036 EFT 'All V' dps with navy torps and 3x BCU II. 20 km torp range. A Raven with a similar fit does 948 dps at 30 km.

It's basically a torpedo megathron with the quirks that come with torpedoes instead of blasters. As such it would need pretty good acceleration and speed to be effective, but not require as much cap or pg as an Abaddon. A niche ship for sure, but we don't have any armor tanking torpedo boats in EVE so why not?

How about just adding launcher hardpoints but no bonus? Since the abaddon doesnt get a laser damage bonus it should be able to survive without one for missiles. Though that might just result in a lot of cruise abaddons for missions. A raven with 6 launchers and a 25% RoF bonus has 8 effective launchers, so an unbonused abaddon should do similar dps but with shorter range.