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That agent is mad at me
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Azyr Aurvandil
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-07-25 05:42:12 UTC
i declined missions from a lvl 4 agents, but my standing with him was fixed at 6,6, so it was cool and i declined declined, until the next good mission, but after a good amount of declining, agens standing dropped from 6,6 to -2,2.
so, i started grinding lvl 1-2-3 agents, but the lvl4 agent is still mad at me and at -2,2 standing. how do i fix this? thx.
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-07-25 05:49:52 UTC
fleet with someone who can pull missions from said agent, have them share the reward. should quickly give you the standing needed to use him/her again
Azyr Aurvandil
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-07-25 06:15:02 UTC
anything else?
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-07-25 06:22:52 UTC
not really no
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#5 - 2014-07-25 06:49:37 UTC
Lucky for all of us, they are plenty of agents to satisfy your anti-rat blood-lust, just keep a closer eye more on their standing in the future. As a general rule of thumb, I usually never decline within the 4-hour period more than once, and even then I only decline if absolutely need to run a mission and have no other agent in the area that can offer a descent one.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Kijimea
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-07-25 07:36:11 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Lucky for all of us, they are plenty of agents to satisfy your anti-rat blood-lust, just keep a closer eye more on their standing in the future. As a general rule of thumb, I usually never decline within the 4-hour period more than once, and even then I only decline if absolutely need to run a mission and have no other agent in the area that can offer a descent one.


this is why ppl say "you cannot get 100mil + /hour with lvl 4" - because of your 4-hour period thing. If you want to make good isk, decline all the way down to -1. Also you will know after some time which missions will have a heavy impact on standing when declined. Just once you get to 0 take care. I have 2 agents in one station and my standing to them always varies from -1 to maybe 4 if i have a good mission streak.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-07-25 09:58:33 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Along with what Lady Naween and others have posted, you should also train up the Social skills.

Declining more than 1 mission offer within a 4 hour period with a specific agent is not a wise decision. The best option is to mission and build up standings with a few different agents at the same time.



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#8 - 2014-07-25 18:07:41 UTC
Kijimea wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Lucky for all of us, they are plenty of agents to satisfy your anti-rat blood-lust, just keep a closer eye more on their standing in the future. As a general rule of thumb, I usually never decline within the 4-hour period more than once, and even then I only decline if absolutely need to run a mission and have no other agent in the area that can offer a descent one.


this is why ppl say "you cannot get 100mil + /hour with lvl 4" - because of your 4-hour period thing. If you want to make good isk, decline all the way down to -1. Also you will know after some time which missions will have a heavy impact on standing when declined. Just once you get to 0 take care. I have 2 agents in one station and my standing to them always varies from -1 to maybe 4 if i have a good mission streak.


That's sort of my whole point with my first line. Find a good spot with multiple agents (they don't all have to be in same system, just within a jump) and you shouldn't need to keep declining all the way down to -1.The whole "100M ISK per hour" isn't unrealistic just because of the 4-hour timers, it's unrealistic because of the travel time, time it takes to slow-boat from pocket gate to pocket gate, isk from loot is not instant isk, isk from lp is not instant isk, certain missions have timed spawns rather than kill spawns, many L4s don't provide the bounty or loot needed to even achieve 100M per hour anyways, etc.

Besides, the old ISK per hour measurement is so convoluted in my opinion that the whole thing is unreliable. Too many factors affect it and it can vary so much from day to day even with the same missions. Yes, I do cherry pick missions, but not because of ISK per hour, it's mainly because this mission is good enough bounty and loot for the time it takes to run.

In the end, if ISK per hour really is your thing, then I say stick with what you know and make it happen. If you can manage to make it work for you, than that's all that matter. It's just that I've tried to keep track of that and found it to be pointless in the long run for me.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Kijimea
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-07-25 19:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kijimea
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Kijimea wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Lucky for all of us, they are plenty of agents to satisfy your anti-rat blood-lust, just keep a closer eye more on their standing in the future. As a general rule of thumb, I usually never decline within the 4-hour period more than once, and even then I only decline if absolutely need to run a mission and have no other agent in the area that can offer a descent one.


this is why ppl say "you cannot get 100mil + /hour with lvl 4" - because of your 4-hour period thing. If you want to make good isk, decline all the way down to -1. Also you will know after some time which missions will have a heavy impact on standing when declined. Just once you get to 0 take care. I have 2 agents in one station and my standing to them always varies from -1 to maybe 4 if i have a good mission streak.


That's sort of my whole point with my first line. Find a good spot with multiple agents (they don't all have to be in same system, just within a jump) and you shouldn't need to keep declining all the way down to -1.The whole "100M ISK per hour" isn't unrealistic just because of the 4-hour timers, it's unrealistic because of the travel time, time it takes to slow-boat from pocket gate to pocket gate, isk from loot is not instant isk, isk from lp is not instant isk, certain missions have timed spawns rather than kill spawns, many L4s don't provide the bounty or loot needed to even achieve 100M per hour anyways, etc.

Besides, the old ISK per hour measurement is so convoluted in my opinion that the whole thing is unreliable. Too many factors affect it and it can vary so much from day to day even with the same missions. Yes, I do cherry pick missions, but not because of ISK per hour, it's mainly because this mission is good enough bounty and loot for the time it takes to run.

In the end, if ISK per hour really is your thing, then I say stick with what you know and make it happen. If you can manage to make it work for you, than that's all that matter. It's just that I've tried to keep track of that and found it to be pointless in the long run for me.



So first of all isk per hour is a measurement for me to know what i can pull off. Of course i dont always focus 100 % on missions and dont care to get the most of my time but if i do i know what i can expect.

About your arguments when it comes to 100 mil per hour. I do way over 100 mil per hour. That includes accepting / declining missions, refit for specific missions, traveltime to missions and back - so it includes everything except the LP exchange which does my alt. Even if i had no alt and i had to fly to tradehub by my own, the time i would spend to sell my LP wouldnt make much of a difference.

I made a list before, writing down my missions including all those things as mentioned above, flight time etc etc. I never got less than 100 mil. After 49 missions i stopped writing down things because its just always the same. I had an average of ~150 mil/hour. Even if i had to fly to trade hub i would be over 100.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tCugMbLxrxFMz7dhy8v0V2bDXnaGCJh5di_EWXiSi0I/edit#gid=0

(i rounded times up and isk down)

I only fly missions for which i know i get AT LEAST 100 mil / hr. So sorry but not being able to get 100 mil/hr is bullshit. As i said, if you dont focus on missions of course it will drop and i also like to chill and so i get less, but when i decide to make the most out of my time, it IS over 100 - without a doubt because i tried it myself and i know math.


Edit: I forgot, isk from loot - i sell loot after 2 billion so the time so sell loot is as less as possible, better than selling after every mission if you knw what i mean. And you said "slowboat from pocket to gate" - thats a difference, i do not slowboat, i am already aligned so after the last ship is destroyed i warp instantly, u knw.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#10 - 2014-07-26 17:24:56 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Along with what Lady Naween and others have posted, you should also train up the Social skills.

Declining more than 1 mission offer within a 4 hour period with a specific agent is not a wise decision. The best option is to mission and build up standings with a few different agents at the same time.



DMC


I was grinding to 9.9 faction standings for my 2 run CNR BPC so I stuck to this rule rather heavily as even the slightest loss can suck at very high standings. half tempted to just go decline a few missions to see how much it falls, sure I could go look at the standings formula but eh math.

anyways I had faction standing to grind level 3s to get to 5.0+ corp standing with some other corp, and I was getting some faction kill missions and some lowsec missions, and as often as they came up I could decline them and well, it really didn't hurt my standings all that much. With all the other missions I was running my standings kept going up. I suppose it helps that my standing was fairly low, and also that they were level 3 missions. so the percentage change was fairly small and the absolute effect was low.

Hmm it looks like the standings changes to the agents are the same for lv3s and lv4s. The max payout missions are around 9%. where the quick missions are 1-2%. It looks like the penalty for declining is 66% of the reward for completing.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-07-26 22:47:31 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Along with what Lady Naween and others have posted, you should also train up the Social skills.

Declining more than 1 mission offer within a 4 hour period with a specific agent is not a wise decision. The best option is to mission and build up standings with a few different agents at the same time.



DMC


I was grinding to 9.9 faction standings for my 2 run CNR BPC so I stuck to this rule rather heavily as even the slightest loss can suck at very high standings. half tempted to just go decline a few missions to see how much it falls, sure I could go look at the standings formula but eh math.

anyways I had faction standing to grind level 3s to get to 5.0+ corp standing with some other corp, and I was getting some faction kill missions and some lowsec missions, and as often as they came up I could decline them and well, it really didn't hurt my standings all that much. With all the other missions I was running my standings kept going up. I suppose it helps that my standing was fairly low, and also that they were level 3 missions. so the percentage change was fairly small and the absolute effect was low.

Hmm it looks like the standings changes to the agents are the same for lv3s and lv4s. The max payout missions are around 9%. where the quick missions are 1-2%. It looks like the penalty for declining is 66% of the reward for completing.

Ouch. That penalty percentage seems rather excessive.

Yeah, I agree players can easily decline more than 1 mission within the 4 hr time period with little consequences while running the low level missions.

However, doing that tends to encourage a bad habit and after a while that habit becomes second nature which then eventually causes an issue, much like the OP.

So having said that, the best option would be to observe and follow the 4 hr timer rule and access a few different agents.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#12 - 2014-07-27 01:07:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ireland VonVicious
Kijimea wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Lucky for all of us, they are plenty of agents to satisfy your anti-rat blood-lust, just keep a closer eye more on their standing in the future. As a general rule of thumb, I usually never decline within the 4-hour period more than once, and even then I only decline if absolutely need to run a mission and have no other agent in the area that can offer a descent one.


this is why ppl say "you cannot get 100mil + /hour with lvl 4" - because of your 4-hour period thing. If you want to make good isk, decline all the way down to -1. Also you will know after some time which missions will have a heavy impact on standing when declined. Just once you get to 0 take care. I have 2 agents in one station and my standing to them always varies from -1 to maybe 4 if i have a good mission streak.



Never had this issue.

I have 2 corps with 4 L4 agents all within a few jumps.

I also use MTU's with nocits to slow the decline factor down.

100 mil an hour easy. Usally a good chunk more.
If you plan it correctly you can see just shy of 120 mil an hour.

You'll want an Orca and a Omni tanked RS.

The plus about that line of ships is a Worm and Gila can fit in the Orca with the Nocits.
You won't find that in any other line of ships except the Caldari varrients.
Moving all your support ships at once is the biggest time saver you will ever find.

It's massive SP investment. But once you see it in action you never worry about declining a mission again.

Spinning up the faction standings has also allowed me to run L3's for any group at any time so adding new agents to the mix when I move is fast and easy with the Gila.

Worm/Gila/Noctis/Orca/Rattlesnake Eve's most perfect Mission combo of ships.

Make sure to keep a shuttle in the Orca too and empty out the RS before the move so the shuttle can come back in it. This style has allowed me to run L4's freely in every area of high sec without pissing off a single agent. 9.9's everywhere.