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scam in video games and go to jail for real
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Mudkest
Contagious Goat Labs
#1 - 2014-07-25 18:18:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Mudkest
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/shortcuts/2014/jul/24/thieves-world-warcraft-real-prisons-tory-mike-weatherley

"David Cameron's chief adviser on intellectual property, he has asked ministers to consider passing a law that would mean people "who steal online items in video games with a real-world monetary value receive the same sentences as criminals who steal real-world items of the same monetary value"

and "Weatherley, the MP for Hove, East Sussex and a Warcraft player himself, says that since players can spend serious amounts of real-world cash on items, even though they exist only online, they should be offered the same protection as victims of theft in the world of solid objects"

I wonder, should we invite him to eve online, or keep him away from it at all costs?


also, doesnt blizard consider all ingame items in wow as their own property, and dont allow you to sell it for real life cash? if so then it HAS no monetary value does it? so then if you steal the "silly looking sword of uberness" do you get fined/jailtiem based on teh "street velue" of said item? go to jail for "possesing stolen goods" or "fencing"?
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#2 - 2014-07-25 18:32:01 UTC
If this ever gets implemented and in the not so far future someone from this game goes to jail AND/or at least has to pay a fine of any sort, even token ones , I will slowly grab my trusty bottle of Cacique Rum, pour a huge quantity of it on a glass, smile, move in my comfy seat and then will proceed to light one of my favorite smuggled from Venezuela Cuban cigars and begin watching the drama unfold in troves upon troves of endless threadnaughts.

Though I find it highly unlikely, it would be an interesting thing to watch and see how it develops.

But I fail to see how it could be enforced, if at all here, on EVE ONLINE since this is the only game that matters

o/

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#3 - 2014-07-25 18:45:16 UTC
It's Blizzard's (or CCP's) property that you're bringing into existence by throwing money at them. It's only a transaction in the most minimal sense.

I'm really not sure how far that would go IRL. Just because I think of "my" character and "my" ships as a lexical shorthand doesn't mean that they're legally mine. If someone passes a law to the contrary, the results will be... interesting, to say the least. For example, let's say that World of Warcraft has finally run its race, and Blizzard wants to pull the plug. Can the whales sue Blizzard for "taking away" "their" property that they spent so much money on? How could Blizzard make them whole without essentially guaranteeing that World of Warcraft would limp along in perpetuity? Could you will your virtual properties to other people? Sell them on contract?

I doubt that advisor has given the issue more than a few seconds' thought.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#4 - 2014-07-25 21:35:39 UTC
What happens when a company decides to shut their servers down? Are they responsible for the theft of said items as well Roll
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#5 - 2014-07-26 05:58:11 UTC
Don't get riles up. It's one person with an idea that can't be implemented because the items. Just like all the characters and the account belongs to blizzard and blizzard won't be pressing charges.

Quote:

In the same year, two Dutch teens were also found guilty of forcing a younger player to log into his RuneScape account and hand over an amulet and a mask, the digital-age version of stealing another kid's lunch money. The Dutch court ruled: "These virtual goods are goods (under Dutch law), so this is theft."


Do you remember how the whole internet went insane over this story despite the fact that they literally robbed him in real life?

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Riyria Twinpeaks
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-07-26 06:36:28 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
It's Blizzard's (or CCP's) property that you're bringing into existence by throwing money at them. It's only a transaction in the most minimal sense.

I'm really not sure how far that would go IRL. Just because I think of "my" character and "my" ships as a lexical shorthand doesn't mean that they're legally mine. If someone passes a law to the contrary, the results will be... interesting, to say the least. For example, let's say that World of Warcraft has finally run its race, and Blizzard wants to pull the plug. Can the whales sue Blizzard for "taking away" "their" property that they spent so much money on? How could Blizzard make them whole without essentially guaranteeing that World of Warcraft would limp along in perpetuity? Could you will your virtual properties to other people? Sell them on contract?

I doubt that advisor has given the issue more than a few seconds' thought.


Even before calling the plug there's bound to be stuff like: "This is MY item I've spent so much money on, and now patch XYZ devaluates it completely. I want to be compensated!"
So far such cries for compensation only referred to ingame compensation, but with a legal change as outlined above, they'd probably escalate into "real world" compensation demands.

The internet clearly needs more crying and outrage.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#7 - 2014-07-26 08:37:23 UTC
the only thing i want to know is what his character name was so i can find out how much he lost.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Emiko P'eng
#8 - 2014-07-26 09:46:18 UTC
As I posted in the thread in General Discussions

Well

After a quick check elsewhere, what he is after is Hackers and Gold Scammers / Sellers (Mainly because they use hacked accounts, stolen credit cards and break EULA)

That is all well and good as it should be Smile

BUT!

Being a British politician and the total lack of digital savvy in 99.99% of all the rest of the UK politicians Sad

The dogs dinner of a mess that his Anti-Hacking / Anti Scamming bill would become after it had wended its way through Parliament is only to be imagined, I shudder at the prospect Shocked

It would be as bad as the 'Dangerous Dog' act which instead of saying prosecute the owners of 'Dangerous Dogs', instead attempted to define that a 'Dangerous Dog' was a breed of dog that does not actually officially exist, then have them all impounded and put down!!!
Mudkest
Contagious Goat Labs
#9 - 2014-07-26 09:52:13 UTC
Emiko P'eng wrote:

It would be as bad as the 'Dangerous Dog' act which instead of saying prosecute the owners of 'Dangerous Dogs', instead attempted to define that a 'Dangerous Dog' was a breed of dog that does not actually officially exist, then have them all impounded and put down!!!


so you are saying that in the end, probably the only ones that are getting prosecuted are those that hack wow accounts using a laptop with a pentium II processor and 640kb of ram
Emiko P'eng
#10 - 2014-07-26 11:01:19 UTC
Mudkest wrote:
so you are saying that in the end, probably the only ones that are getting prosecuted are those that hack wow accounts using a laptop with a pentium II processor and 640kb of ram
Hehe!

A more likely scenario would be the Hackers will not be investigated as it will be to difficult as most will are outside the UK and instead the mate you shared your account with will end up in jail for 10 years for digital breaking and entering, while you'll be fined for allowing him to do it Roll
RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-07-26 11:45:39 UTC
Interesting, go to jail for stealing something that is not tangible. Half of EVE would be in jail. Police can't enforce this. "I find you guilty of theft and the disbandement of BOB. I fine you 800 bitcoin and 1 year hard labor." While your in your cell the inmates will ask you what you were in for and you can reply "grand theft orca". A goon goes to jail "I'm in for racketeering and coercion charges." or maybe "Harrassment in local and criminal mischief"
Mudkest
Contagious Goat Labs
#12 - 2014-07-26 14:47:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Mudkest
RAIN Arthie wrote:
Interesting, go to jail for stealing something that is not tangible. Half of EVE would be in jail. Police can't enforce this. "I find you guilty of theft and the disbandement of BOB. I fine you 800 bitcoin and 1 year hard labor." While your in your cell the inmates will ask you what you were in for and you can reply "grand theft orca". A goon goes to jail "I'm in for racketeering and coercion charges." or maybe "Harrassment in local and criminal mischief"



invouluntary manslaughter(after acidently hitting smartbomb next to a pod)

accesoiry to 265 counts of murder(lighting up cyno for doomsday device)
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#13 - 2014-07-26 19:19:11 UTC
Holy ****!!!

going to invest in buckets... imagine how many tears we will collect once 99% of eve player base (including all the devs) going to prison with Mexican drug lords :P
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#14 - 2014-07-27 07:05:50 UTC
RAIN Arthie wrote:
Interesting, go to jail for stealing something that is not tangible. Half of EVE would be in jail. Police can't enforce this. "I find you guilty of theft and the disbandement of BOB. I fine you 800 bitcoin and 1 year hard labor." While your in your cell the inmates will ask you what you were in for and you can reply "grand theft orca". A goon goes to jail "I'm in for racketeering and coercion charges." or maybe "Harrassment in local and criminal mischief"

Hardly, you don't actually own anything in eve, read the eula

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Themanfromdalmontee
EVE RADIO ARMY
#15 - 2014-07-27 09:43:01 UTC
And the MP's spoke bull and all of the parliament they rejoiced as it made them sound important. All the lay folk riled up by the 'daily mail' cheered and cried for it was the second coming of moronus.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#16 - 2014-07-27 22:25:14 UTC
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:


Even before calling the plug there's bound to be stuff like: "This is MY item I've spent so much money on, and now patch XYZ devaluates it completely. I want to be compensated!"
So far such cries for compensation only referred to ingame compensation, but with a legal change as outlined above, they'd probably escalate into "real world" compensation demands.

The internet clearly needs more crying and outrage.


People have already started pre-tear phase for the hypothetical of CCP reducing the cost of the monocle. Heck, I do not do Nex stuff so it may even be such that the monocle. It may have been an item that was only available for a short time and the hypothetical is that CCP may re-release it at a cheaper price. I can not really remember the first thread I saw someone mention it.
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#17 - 2014-07-31 04:55:32 UTC
If you scam people within the rules of the game there's no problem.

If you scam people by breaking the rules of the game like, for instance, hacking or trading accounts and screwing people over, I think there should be some sort of restitution for that.
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-07-31 06:21:05 UTC
Mudkest wrote:
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/shortcuts/2014/jul/24/thieves-world-warcraft-real-prisons-tory-mike-weatherley

"David Cameron's chief adviser on intellectual property, he has asked ministers to consider passing a law that would mean people "who steal online items in video games with a real-world monetary value receive the same sentences as criminals who steal real-world items of the same monetary value"

and "Weatherley, the MP for Hove, East Sussex and a Warcraft player himself, says that since players can spend serious amounts of real-world cash on items, even though they exist only online, they should be offered the same protection as victims of theft in the world of solid objects"

I wonder, should we invite him to eve online, or keep him away from it at all costs?


also, doesnt blizard consider all ingame items in wow as their own property, and dont allow you to sell it for real life cash? if so then it HAS no monetary value does it? so then if you steal the "silly looking sword of uberness" do you get fined/jailtiem based on teh "street velue" of said item? go to jail for "possesing stolen goods" or "fencing"?


The problem is that Blizzard doesn't decide what has a monetary value, the legislatures do. Law like this is stupid amounts of tricky, and with EvE Online especially, the ability to buy PLEX for real life money and sell it for in-game currency means that there could be some VERY interesting court cases going on in England soon.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#19 - 2014-07-31 07:49:06 UTC
The only in-game item where a real world monetary value might be assigned to it in EVE is a still-in-redemption PLEX.

That is against the game rules to steal. As soon as you convert it from a redemption system PLEX to an in-game object, that issue is no longer relevant.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-07-31 08:10:32 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The only in-game item where a real world monetary value might be assigned to it in EVE is a still-in-redemption PLEX.

That is against the game rules to steal. As soon as you convert it from a redemption system PLEX to an in-game object, that issue is no longer relevant.


What part of "the game company's don't get to pick what is and isn't covered" did you not get? I realize the vast majority of CODE. are mentally handicapped, but read what I wrote a bit before you chime in.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
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