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Compressed ore not reprocessing correctly

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Elisabetha Novy
Dramabombers
#1 - 2014-07-25 10:21:16 UTC
Compressed ore is listed in game as comming from Compressed ore Blueprints where 1 unit of the compressed ore comes from a large number of regular ore.

In game refining yield of the compressed ore do not reflect this in any way:
100 uncompressed Arkonor yields 230 Megacyte, 6905 Tritanium, 1278 Mexallon, 115 Zydrine
1 Compressed Arkonor was made using 1000 uncompressed Arkonor according to in game documentation available (clicking the Compressed Arkonor leads to the blueprint details in the information window)
It however delivers exactly the same amount of minerals as the 100 batch or uncompressed Arkonor

This while it should, according to provided documentation in this table:
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65852/1/Compressedore2.png

1 compressed Arkonor should instead yield 2300 Megacyte, 69050 Tritanium, 1147 Zydrine

My best guess is that something went wrong somewhere and that the 1 Compressed ore batch has been made to process as the standard 100 uncompressed Arkonor.

This failing perpetuates throughout the entire compressed ore reprocessing.

Qoi
Exert Force
#2 - 2014-07-25 10:22:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Qoi
This was changed, the "provided documentation" is outdated. 1 Compressed Ore always requires 100 uncompressed ore. Those blueprints should be removed soon since they are not used.

If you want to find the actual values you can look in the SDE:

eve=> SELECT t."typeName", t."volume", t2."typeName", m."quantity" FROM "invTypes" t, "invTypeMaterials" m, "invTypes" t2 WHERE t."typeID" = m."typeID" AND
t2."typeID" = m."materialTypeID"AND t."typeName" = 'Compressed Arkonor';

typeName | volume | typeName | quantity
--------------------+--------+-----------+----------
Compressed Arkonor | 3.08 | Tritanium | 6905
Compressed Arkonor | 3.08 | Mexallon | 1278
Compressed Arkonor | 3.08 | Zydrine | 115
Compressed Arkonor | 3.08 | Megacyte | 230

The number of ore required for compression is now in Dogma:

eve=> SELECT t."typeName", at."attributeName", COALESCE(ta."valueFloat", ta."valueInt") FROM "invTypes" t JOIN "dgmTypeAttributes" ta ON (t."typeID" = ta."typeID") JOIN "dgmAttributeTypes" at ON (ta."attributeID" = at."attributeID") WHERE t."typeName" = 'Arkonor' AND at."attributeName" = 'compressionQuantityNeeded';

typeName | attributeName | coalesce
----------+---------------------------+----------
Arkonor | compressionQuantityNeeded | 100

http://eve-industry.org
Elisabetha Novy
Dramabombers
#3 - 2014-07-25 10:32:24 UTC
So, the in game information window is wrong?

How can this be?

CCP expects me to keep track of out of game tidbits?
Qoi
Exert Force
#4 - 2014-07-25 10:40:02 UTC
Elisabetha Novy wrote:
So, the in game information window is wrong?

How can this be?

CCP expects me to keep track of out of game tidbits?


Yes

Reading the Patch Notes is one thing i personally recommend.

http://eve-industry.org
Elisabetha Novy
Dramabombers
#5 - 2014-07-25 10:52:55 UTC
Qoi wrote:


Reading the Patch Notes is one thing i personally recommend.


Having just re-read and re-re-read the patch notes I am either functionally impaired or it's not in the patch notes.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#6 - 2014-07-25 11:18:00 UTC
Elisabetha Novy wrote:
Qoi wrote:


Reading the Patch Notes is one thing i personally recommend.


Having just re-read and re-re-read the patch notes I am either functionally impaired or it's not in the patch notes.


the compression batch size is not noted in the patch notes, however they link several times to the "reprocess all the things" dev blog that details the compression changes.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#7 - 2014-07-25 11:21:05 UTC
Sometimes they go a little too far with this whole "we give you tools, use it as you like" sandboxy thing and they don't even give us tools just database to dig in :)

I don't know if there is another game out there where players need 3rd party tools to even dabble in game's content. It's very unique way of building communities around your game and activities in it but I am honestly not sure if this uniqueness is really a good thing.

Invalid signature format
Elisabetha Novy
Dramabombers
#8 - 2014-07-25 11:34:07 UTC
Velicitia wrote:


the compression batch size is not noted in the patch notes, however they link several times to the "reprocess all the things" dev blog that details the compression changes.


Yes, including this awsome chart
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65852/1/Compressedore2.png

Which somehow became outdated by something I haven't been able to find yet.

So the most current patch notes refer to outdated information.

While I realise EVE is a tough game and love it for that, this one is a bit to far for me.
Julien Brellier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-07-25 12:07:40 UTC
I too got caught out by this.

The new formula is 100 ore = 1 compressed ore = same amount of minerals
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#10 - 2014-07-25 12:09:39 UTC
Elisabetha Novy wrote:
Velicitia wrote:


the compression batch size is not noted in the patch notes, however they link several times to the "reprocess all the things" dev blog that details the compression changes.


Yes, including this awsome chart
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65852/1/Compressedore2.png

Which somehow became outdated by something I haven't been able to find yet.

So the most current patch notes refer to outdated information.

While I realise EVE is a tough game and love it for that, this one is a bit to far for me.
Oh good lord, quit the whining.
The rest of us seemed to mystically understand that ore is compressed in batches of 100 even without digging through the database, so yes, you missed it.
And it's now been explained to you, so you have the answer so you know it's not broken and just an out of date description. So post it in the issues thread and get on with your life. If it's "too far" for you, then the door is over there, cya.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Elisabetha Novy
Dramabombers
#11 - 2014-07-25 12:34:33 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Oh good lord, quit the whining.
The rest of us seemed to mystically understand that ore is compressed in batches of 100 even without digging through the database, so yes, you missed it.
And it's now been explained to you, so you have the answer so you know it's not broken and just an out of date description. So post it in the issues thread and get on with your life. If it's "too far" for you, then the door is over there, cya.


"Too far" refered to the level of difficulty. In this particular instance the level of difficulty in obtaining the correct information versus obtaining failty information was skewed in favor of incorrect information.

If incorect information is the easiest to obtain even when doing more research then can reasonably be expected of a user it's not a question of difficulty but rather of information supply.

I used in game information detailing compression batch sizes as well as the out of game information detailed in the post that the patch notes themselves refer to.

Both containing incorrect information.

The actual source I should have taken as gospel in this has not yet been named in this thread outside of a database dump. This skews the playingfield in favor of obsessive compulsive information gatherers and people in the know.

This hurts the game in the long run. Because, as you so aptly put it "the door is over there, cya". A comment that already clings to EVE online like a plague. I tried taking the door, it didn't open, so I disabled the captains quarters and bemoan ship spinning like a proper lass.

So don't confuse a desire to be provided correct information with whining.
Qoi
Exert Force
#12 - 2014-07-25 12:59:55 UTC
Elisabetha Novy wrote:
Qoi wrote:


Reading the Patch Notes is one thing i personally recommend.


Having just re-read and re-re-read the patch notes I am either functionally impaired or it's not in the patch notes.


Crius Patch Notes:

Quote:

Compressed ore and ice mechanics have been changed. They now give the same quantities as non-compressed ore and ice variants, but have reduced volume (please refer to the non-compressed ore and ice above for mineral outputs)


Quote:
figures on the "Reprocess all the things Dev Blog" are out of date

http://eve-industry.org
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#13 - 2014-07-25 13:58:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Elisabetha Novy wrote:
"Too far" refered to the level of difficulty. In this particular instance the level of difficulty in obtaining the correct information versus obtaining failty information was skewed in favor of incorrect information.
It's strange then that most of us have accidentally stumbled into the right information.

edit: Oh, and it's on this dev blog:
Quote:
Instead of requiring various amounts of ore to compress as expressed here, compression now requires 100 units of the base ore to deliver one unit of compressed variation.
as well as being on EVE uni

Elisabetha Novy wrote:
So don't confuse a desire to be provided correct information with whining.
It was a desire to be provided correct information. Then you received that information and continued on. That's when it became whining.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#14 - 2014-07-25 14:57:01 UTC
Elisabetha Novy wrote:
So, the in game information window is wrong?

How can this be?

CCP expects me to keep track of out of game tidbits?


Hello and my apologies on this one, since I was responsible of coming with the information you linked in the "reprocess all the things".

We first wanted compression to work as intended in the blog, but we shortly after iterated on the design to make it simpler.

This change was mentioned on the Crius Patch notes.

Quote:
Compressed ore and ice

Ore and ice may now be compressed directly inside the Starbase Compression Array or Rorqual (in industrial mode) by right-clicking them and selecting "compress"
Compressed ore and ice mechanics have been changed. They now give the same quantities as non-compressed ore and ice variants, but have reduced volume (please refer to the non-compressed ore and ice above for mineral outputs)
Exact numbers (figures on the "Reprocess all the things Dev Blog" are out of date):

1 unit of Compressed Arkonor, Compressed Crimson Arkonor and Compressed Prime Arkonor now has a volume of 3.08m3
1 unit of Compressed Bistot, Compressed Monoclinic Bistot and Compressed Triclinic Bistot now has a volume of 6.11m3
1 unit of Compressed Crokite, Compressed Crystalline Crokite and Compressed Sharp Crokite now has a volume 7.81m3
1 unit of Compressed Dark Ochre, Compressed Obsidian Ochre and Compressed Onyx Ochre now has a volume of 3.27m3
1 unit of Compressed Gneiss, Compressed Iridescent Gneiss and Compressed Prismatic Gneiss now has a volume of 1.03m3
1 unit of Compressed Hedbergite, Compressed Vitric Hedbergite and Compressed Glazed Hedbergite now has a volume of 0.14m3
1 unit of Compressed Hemorphite, Compressed Radiant Hemorphite and Compressed Vivid Hemorphite now has a volume of 0.16m3
1 unit of Compressed Jaspet, Compressed Pristine Jaspet and Compressed Pure Jaspet now has a volume of 0.15m3
1 unit of Compressed Kernite, Compressed Fiery Kernite and Compressed Luminous Kernite now has a volume of 0.19m3
1 unit of Compressed Mercoxit, Compressed Magma Mercoxit and Compressed Vitreous Mercoxit now has a volume of 0.1m3
1 unit of Compressed Omber, Compressed Golden Omber and Compressed Silvery Omber now has a volume of 0.07m3
1 unit of Compressed Plagioclase, Compressed Rich Plagioclase and Compressed Azure Plagioclase now has a volume of 0.15m3
1 unit of Compressed Pyroxeres, Compressed Solid Pyroxeres and Compressed Viscous Pyroxeres now has a volume of 0.16m3
1 unit of Compressed Scordite, Compressed Massive Scordite and Compressed Condensed Scordite now has a volume of 0.19m3
1 unit of Compressed Spodumain, Compressed Gleaming Spodumain and Compressed Bright Spodumain now has a volume of 16m3
1 unit of Compressed Veldspar, Compressed Concentrated Veldspar and Compressed Dense Veldspar now has a volume of 0.15m3
Compressed ice volumes have not been changed


Hope that helps.
Elisabetha Novy
Dramabombers
#15 - 2014-07-25 16:41:40 UTC
In game incorrect information is still being provided. Compressed ore information links to blueprint information still providing tenfold or more that actual compressed ore content.

The only sources containing actual numbers that has been provided here is a dev blog is labeled as "Starbase changes for Crius" and a database dump.

Eve University, however reputable, is not an actual game resource.

"Compressed ore and ice mechanics have been changed. They now give the same quantities as non-compressed ore and ice variants, but have reduced volume (please refer to the non-compressed ore and ice above for mineral outputs)"

Isn't exactly clear on what actually happens to the numbers of it all. Does one unit of ore yield the same output as one compressed unit of ore?

Nowhere in the patch notes are the actual numbers provided.

On a side note, what happened to stacks of compressed ore? Were they amended to represent the new values? So did one stack of compressed Arkonor become ten stacks?