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30% loss in refining yield OVERNIGHT!
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Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#61 - 2014-07-24 22:36:59 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Wrecking Blow

Lyrics by Unsuccessful at Everything
Produced by Unsuccessful Productions™
Loosely based upon "Wrecking Ball" by Miley Cyrus

We'll whine, we'll cry our hearts out guys,
Crius launched, now we question why,
We failed to read the Dev Blogs threads,
A whine, heard throughout all time.

Why don't CCP, SP refund me,
They should always have to..
Highsec was my life, im angry and ill tell you why..
I will always blame you..

Crius hit us like a wrecking blow..
Nerfing industry was really low..
All I wanted was some easy ISK..
Now ruined my game...
Yeah, you, you ruined my game.

Now PLEX is so high, I question why
CCP, why don't you control the price?
Ill gnash my teeth, cry myself to sleep,
Highsec, it used to be so nice.

Why wont CCP, SP refund me,
They should always have to..
Highsec was my life, im angry now ill tell you why..
I will always blame you..

Crius hit us like a wrecking blow..
Nerfing industry was really low..
All I wanted was some easy ISK..
Now you've ruined my game.

My entitlement now overflows..
Yeah, we deserved better than this..
Im left now with 10 accounts..
Im unsubbing now forthwith..
Yeah, CCP wrecked my game.

I never meant to cry so much
I just ooze entitlement..
And instead of using words..
I guess I should unsub to win..
I never meant to cry so much
I just wanted easy ISK..
Why cant you just let highsec win?

Don't you ever say I wont walk away..
Ill unsub and show you..

Crius hit us like a wrecking blow..
nerfing industry was really low..
All I wanted was some easy ISK..
Now you've ruined my game.

Crius hit us like a wrecking blow..
Nerfing industry was really low..
We deserve our easy ISK..
CCP now ruined my game..
Yeah, CCP, you ruined my game..
Yeah, CCP, you ruined my game.


LOL Nice. Here, have some likes. Big smile

.

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2014-07-24 23:15:25 UTC
Well...


I don't mine or manufacture...


So I don't care....

I don't...
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#63 - 2014-07-25 03:10:33 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:


Is that for a refining outpost or pos? If for pos, does that mean a refining outpost gives 120% yield??? (Maths is not my strong point What?)

That's a high sec pos with no implant relative to pre crius yields.
And yes, a Null Mini outpost can return 120% yields compared to pre crius. Or close enough to.
Ironbuket
Violet Impulse
#64 - 2014-07-25 03:24:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ironbuket
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Gedrick frogue wrote:
yup high sec miners get kicked in the nuts

...unless you can actually tell me in what way you have lost, I call BS on your statement, thanks

How about this example from my own records

Before patch:

50% NPC station, skill sufficient to give 0% loss
333 units of Pyroxeres refined yields
Mexallon 120
Nocxium 11
Pyerite 59
Tritanium 844


Same station and same skills after patch:

333 units of Pyroxeres refined yields
Mexallon 99
Nocxium 10
Pyerite 49
Tritanium 693

I support the idea of giving higher refine returns with extra effort, but this is clearly a nerf. When people claimed nerf leading up to the patch, I’m sure people were defending the changes saying that the extra refine loss would be offset by higher yields? At least in my case this is not true. I now have to train skills and buy a pos just to get back to the point I was already at a few days back, if that isn’t a nerf (and yes a ‘kick in the nuts’) I don’t know what is.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#65 - 2014-07-25 03:40:01 UTC
I see now that some people are benefiting from their investments in ore processing V and 4% implants, unlike earlier (lol "skill sufficient to give 0% loss")

Op success

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#66 - 2014-07-25 03:40:44 UTC
If you do not have the skills for a particular ore maxed then & do not have the refining implant, then yes, it is a nerf.
That is working as intended, it is meant to be a nerf for anyone with less than max skills.
Brylan Grey
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2014-07-25 04:43:34 UTC
I don't like it.

But I think it is reasonable.

My alt had 100% refine with some skills only at 3, and no implants.

So there was no need to up skills further. Now that the refine yield is lower, means more skill investment will yield better returns. This makes perfect sense to me.

Overall, I think it will benefit the game overall, and really help out the people that are really dedicated to mining, giving them larger profits than before, while the casual miners like my alt, will find they either need to step up the skulking, or move on to other isk earning careers.

I had two chars that would mine while I work. But due to this change I might abandon mining.

Is that bad? Not at all. Less competition for the dedicated miners. Their profitability will go up much more and I will simply find other activities more suited for my skills for isk earning.
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#68 - 2014-07-25 04:45:15 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:


Is that for a refining outpost or pos? If for pos, does that mean a refining outpost gives 120% yield??? (Maths is not my strong point What?)

That's a high sec pos with no implant relative to pre crius yields.
And yes, a Null Mini outpost can return 120% yields compared to pre crius. Or close enough to.


Ok, well I was talking about post crius, and thos calculations make it look like you can get 100% yield POST crius, which is impossible, I already have the same yield as pre crius with all skills maxed, post crius max yield is what Im interested in, and so those calculations are somewhat misleading...

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#69 - 2014-07-25 07:20:29 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
Despite Max refining skills, best refining implant, highest standing with NPC station corp, whats the point of

chasing the proverbial ball of wealth in this game if CCP thwarts the whole process and laughs at us in the process!!! :::

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2013-11/enhanced/webdr06/21/11/anigif_enhanced-buzz-14678-1385051057-29.gif


Ice prices gonna go through the roof, and only lottery winners gonna be playing Eve!

http://i.imgur.com/ECtfYXe.gif


Oh and have a great day Big smile



Op clearly did not read dev blogs or patchnotes.


Sorry, but that just mean you are stupid for not reading up what CCP is going to change, your own damn fault.

Bye.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#70 - 2014-07-25 09:00:26 UTC
Ironbuket wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Gedrick frogue wrote:
yup high sec miners get kicked in the nuts

...unless you can actually tell me in what way you have lost, I call BS on your statement, thanks

How about this example from my own records

Before patch:

50% NPC station, skill sufficient to give 0% loss
333 units of Pyroxeres refined yields
Mexallon 120
Nocxium 11
Pyerite 59
Tritanium 844


Same station and same skills after patch:

333 units of Pyroxeres refined yields
Mexallon 99
Nocxium 10
Pyerite 49
Tritanium 693

I support the idea of giving higher refine returns with extra effort, but this is clearly a nerf. When people claimed nerf leading up to the patch, I’m sure people were defending the changes saying that the extra refine loss would be offset by higher yields? At least in my case this is not true. I now have to train skills and buy a pos just to get back to the point I was already at a few days back, if that isn’t a nerf (and yes a ‘kick in the nuts’) I don’t know what is.


Just as planned
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#71 - 2014-07-25 09:11:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Ironbuket wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Gedrick frogue wrote:
yup high sec miners get kicked in the nuts

...unless you can actually tell me in what way you have lost, I call BS on your statement, thanks

How about this example from my own records

Before patch:

50% NPC station, skill sufficient to give 0% loss
333 units of Pyroxeres refined yields
Mexallon 120
Nocxium 11
Pyerite 59
Tritanium 844


Same station and same skills after patch:

333 units of Pyroxeres refined yields
Mexallon 99
Nocxium 10
Pyerite 49
Tritanium 693

I support the idea of giving higher refine returns with extra effort, but this is clearly a nerf. When people claimed nerf leading up to the patch, I’m sure people were defending the changes saying that the extra refine loss would be offset by higher yields? At least in my case this is not true. I now have to train skills and buy a pos just to get back to the point I was already at a few days back, if that isn’t a nerf (and yes a ‘kick in the nuts’) I don’t know what is.


Thats interesting...

Given you cannot refine exactly 333 units of anything, I doubt the accuracy of your data

Also you used the word "station", so there is a flaw in your method from the start

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Velicitia
XS Tech
#72 - 2014-07-25 09:43:57 UTC
Ironbuket wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Gedrick frogue wrote:
yup high sec miners get kicked in the nuts

...unless you can actually tell me in what way you have lost, I call BS on your statement, thanks

How about this example from my own records

Before patch:

50% NPC station, skill sufficient to give 0% loss
333 units of Pyroxeres refined yields
Mexallon 120
Nocxium 11
Pyerite 59
Tritanium 844


Same station and same skills after patch:

333 units of Pyroxeres refined yields
Mexallon 99
Nocxium 10
Pyerite 49
Tritanium 693

I support the idea of giving higher refine returns with extra effort, but this is clearly a nerf. When people claimed nerf leading up to the patch, I’m sure people were defending the changes saying that the extra refine loss would be offset by higher yields? At least in my case this is not true. I now have to train skills and buy a pos just to get back to the point I was already at a few days back, if that isn’t a nerf (and yes a ‘kick in the nuts’) I don’t know what is.


Thing is, CCP has stated outright that in order to get "100%" pre-crius refine now, you need max skills (5/5/5 Refining / Refinery Efficiency / Ore-Specific Processing) as well as the 4% Refining implant. NOTE -- when you have this, the window will say "72.4% yield". This is also intended, as it allowed CCP to re-work the POS and Outpost refineries, in order to make them better than NPC stations.

Here are the "perfect NPC station" numbers for Pyrox, assuming 3.33 refines (which you can't actually get, because batch size):

Tritanium -- 846
Pyerite -- 60
Mexallon -- 120
Nox -- 12

3.00 refines yields the following (with 33 Pyrox left over):

Tritanium -- 762
Pyerite -- 54
Mexallon -- 108
Nox -- 10

NOTE -- maths were done quickly, so I might be off by 1 or 2 in either direction.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#73 - 2014-07-25 09:48:13 UTC
Ironbuket wrote:
Same station and same skills after patch:

333 units of Pyroxeres refined yields
Mexallon 99
Nocxium 10
Pyerite 49
Tritanium 693
…so when we factor in the ore that you fail to refine and the poor choice of location, what you're actually getting is:

Mexallon: 112
Nocxium: 11
Pyerite: 55
Tritanium: 784

There are plenty of skills left to make up for the 12% loss you're incurring. Train those.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#74 - 2014-07-25 09:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
If I remember right, with only Refinery Efficiency V and a 2% implant, you could max out a 50% base NPC station before. No need for any processing skills...

Wonder how many in highsec actually got X Processing Vs and a 4% implant (my nullsec alt has it for ice, which I mine)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#75 - 2014-07-25 10:19:05 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
If I remember right, with only Refinery Efficiency V and a 2% implant, you could max out a 50% base NPC station before. No need for any processing skills...

Wonder how many in highsec actually got X Processing Vs and a 4% implant (my nullsec alt has it for ice, which I mine)


I started to train those when the Indy changes were announced months ago. At this stage, post crius, its impossible to get ACTUAL 100% refining anywhere in the Eve Universe, so I find that a bit odd.

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#76 - 2014-07-25 10:56:48 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
If I remember right, with only Refinery Efficiency V and a 2% implant, you could max out a 50% base NPC station before. No need for any processing skills...

Wonder how many in highsec actually got X Processing Vs and a 4% implant (my nullsec alt has it for ice, which I mine)

Yeah my alt got it all a while ago for all the high sec ores and ice. Now Ill just slowly work on the null sec ores as well. Most people had more than enough time in order to train them as well if they kept abreast of the changes and how it would work.

But I have a few guys in null sec bemoaning the changes all day every day until they log off now so its not just stupid people in high sec that got nailed.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Ironbuket
Violet Impulse
#77 - 2014-07-26 04:43:46 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Given you cannot refine exactly 333 units of anything, I doubt the accuracy of your data

You fail - LOL
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#78 - 2014-07-26 04:59:28 UTC
Ironbuket wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Given you cannot refine exactly 333 units of anything, I doubt the accuracy of your data

You fail - LOL


How so?

What he said is right.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#79 - 2014-07-26 06:07:07 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
If I remember right, with only Refinery Efficiency V and a 2% implant, you could max out a 50% base NPC station before. No need for any processing skills...

Wonder how many in highsec actually got X Processing Vs and a 4% implant (my nullsec alt has it for ice, which I mine)

Yeah my alt got it all a while ago for all the high sec ores and ice. Now Ill just slowly work on the null sec ores as well. Most people had more than enough time in order to train them as well if they kept abreast of the changes and how it would work.

But I have a few guys in null sec bemoaning the changes all day every day until they log off now so its not just stupid people in high sec that got nailed.

Actually, don't people have alts with processing IVs, due to the T2 crystals. At least for ore they mine.

Though I guess in highsec, you wouldn't need ABC skills, and wouldn't have Refinery Efficiency V as it isn't a pre-req for the lower ore processing skills. Did 4% implants get a lot more expensive as well...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#80 - 2014-07-26 07:01:58 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
If I remember right, with only Refinery Efficiency V and a 2% implant, you could max out a 50% base NPC station before. No need for any processing skills...

Wonder how many in highsec actually got X Processing Vs and a 4% implant (my nullsec alt has it for ice, which I mine)

Yeah my alt got it all a while ago for all the high sec ores and ice. Now Ill just slowly work on the null sec ores as well. Most people had more than enough time in order to train them as well if they kept abreast of the changes and how it would work.

But I have a few guys in null sec bemoaning the changes all day every day until they log off now so its not just stupid people in high sec that got nailed.

Actually, don't people have alts with processing IVs, due to the T2 crystals. At least for ore they mine.

Though I guess in highsec, you wouldn't need ABC skills, and wouldn't have Refinery Efficiency V as it isn't a pre-req for the lower ore processing skills. Did 4% implants get a lot more expensive as well...

Yes this toon has all the ore processing to L4 even the ABC and null ores as he used to run a rorqual boosting for mining there. So it wont be that bad to train him to L5, itll still take some time to do though. But in high the refiner I use for my mining crews had plenty of time to train all the high sec ores to L5 with room to spare due to them postponing it till Crius.

Yes they did but some idiot keeps dumping implants and Im not making my profits!!!Evil Greed is good right? Big smile

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.