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You know what I would definitely pay Aurum for?
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Daneirkus Auralex
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2011-12-07 22:16:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Daneirkus Auralex
Ciar Meara wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:

But I will say that I find the prospect of paying aurum for *anything* about the most "neckbeardy" prospect I've heard in the eve context. It's like paying for a "girlfriend" - but I guess you'd know all about that Cool


The worst part is when he has to send her back to get cleaned and repaired, he gets lonely in those times...


gfgfgfgfgfm8m8m8m8m8m8m8m8m8m8m8m8m8m8m8m8o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Actually, now that I'm going on ten years in the Marine Corps infantry, I look quite a bit like my avatar (minus the goatee, of course.....)

go back to fapping now.. Sad
Daneirkus Auralex
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2011-12-07 22:31:57 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:


There is nothing in EVE you can't gain through gameplay, NeX items inluded.


This is the main point.

Lets say the NEX didnt exist. If someone told you you could buy a decal for your ship for 700m ISK, would you buy it? While I agree the NEX sometimes seems like an unnecessary middle step, it currently is what it is. If I could rat in fountain for a few days in order to buy a couple plex and trade them for a badass alliance decal, I would.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#63 - 2011-12-07 23:20:09 UTC
Schnoo wrote:
I admit I haven't read all the posts, but I can suggest a different way for people to think about Aurum.
It's basically ISK, just with the added fact that you had to first buy an item (PLEX) and then hand that item over.
A slightly more complicated process than the usual ISK-method of buying stuff, but at the end of the day, it can be viewed as just ISK (it will make your head cool down).


Except it short-circuits player economy in Eve. Nobody has to build these things, nobody has to buy them from LPs and market them, they just come fully-formed when you press the button and arrive in game.

Quote:
And as it is, at the end of the day, ship logos are nothing more but vanity - although it would kinda suck if only some players of a corporation could afford it, perhaps make it so that you buy corp logos on a corporation level (if anything).


Dangerous argument - what are engine trails if not "vanity" - what makes engine trails a core game function and corp logos "vanity" in the strictest sense of comparison ?

Quote:
And as far as it's concerned, if you ever make it payable on a per ship basis, please make sure the ship paint gets destroyed and appears on kill mails (monocles should too btw).


Lets hope they don't go the "adaptive camoflage" route that world of tanks is going for in patch 7.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#64 - 2011-12-07 23:25:57 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tempting though it is to take each point you made Jade and point out where your opinion doesn't jibe with the facts, I'm not going to get drawn into that this time.


Hmmm, I'm not sure you avoided the temptation to try entirely.

Ranger 1 wrote:
If I wish to buy any NeX items all I have to do is buy it directly with ISK (PLEX purchased with ISK converted to AURUM ). No one has been "forced" to buy from the NeX store first. Now on the secondary market your statements flirts with truth, except that nobody was "forced" to buy anything to begin with.


The fact that somebody needed to buy PLEX for $ originally makes your position a little void.

Ranger 1 wrote:
IAgain assumptions based on your personal prejudices. Neither WOD nor DUST were "huge mistakes". Allocation of more assets than was prudent was a mistake, as was how the release of Incarna was handled. Not the same thing, especially when you consider that DUST is alive, well, and about to hit beta testing.


WOD we will agree to disagree, DUST will remain to be seen next year, but insofar as concentrating on these projects to the exclusion (and financial instabiltiy) of Eve was a proven factor this year I'm not sure what you are arguing against.

Ranger 1 wrote:
IAnd while the catch phrase "double charging the player base" is handy to throw around, it is also wildly inaccurate. I have several items from the Nex store, and I have not paid a penny beyond my normal subscription.


Leaving aside the free Aurum offers - somebody did. This is work done by people on a CCP salary that got charged (to us) separately from the subscription - trying to wriggle that around simply doesn't work.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#65 - 2011-12-08 00:19:35 UTC
Okay so let's cut to the chase for the inclusion of the NeX Store shall we, CCP wanted more money to continue developing other projects and were willing to sacrifice the additional gameplay features that they had initially told us would be included in what started as Ambulation.

I actually laughed when CCP said they needed the NeX Store for the long term viability of EVE. Does having $70 monocles, etc bring in new players or garner further interest in the game, I don't think so. What would make the game more appealing and spark the interest of potential subscribers is having additional diversified gameplay features.

CCP can still achieve their goals of gaining additional revenue by delivering the NeX items via regular gameplay methods and controlling the Isk value of any items by limiting their availability in game. So only allow a certain number of BPC's for a given item to be on the server at any given time as just one example. The process still maintains a PLEX/Isk sink and keeps the integrity of the game intact.
The other bonus of adding NeX items through regular gameplay is people outside the game will have yet another reason to become interested in EVE and provide CCP with further revenue from additional subscribers.

Industry, LP rewards, achievements, etc should be the catalyst for clothing, ship skins, etc to enter the game, not that meaningless NeX Store.

Ultimately the NeX just reeks of CCP after a quick buck and for me at least tarnishes their reputation. CCP chose the cheap route and cheapened themselves in the process.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2011-12-08 00:34:28 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
If I wish to buy any NeX items all I have to do is buy it directly with ISK (PLEX purchased with ISK converted to AURUM ). No one has been "forced" to buy from the NeX store first. Now on the secondary market your statements flirts with truth, except that nobody was "forced" to buy anything to begin with.


The fact that somebody needed to buy PLEX for $ originally makes your position a little void..

Except people buy PLEX for $ all the time, in order to gain ISK in EVE. They've already made their choice, and don't care how their PLEX is used as long as they get ISK out of it.
No one is buying AURUM. They're buying PLEX which has multiple uses.

EVE was and IS already rife with microtransactions. Microtransactions which can be used to get better ships, better implants and better modules.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#67 - 2011-12-08 00:37:38 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
If I wish to buy any NeX items all I have to do is buy it directly with ISK (PLEX purchased with ISK converted to AURUM ). No one has been "forced" to buy from the NeX store first. Now on the secondary market your statements flirts with truth, except that nobody was "forced" to buy anything to begin with.


The fact that somebody needed to buy PLEX for $ originally makes your position a little void..

Except people buy PLEX for $ all the time, in order to gain ISK in EVE. They've already made their choice, and don't care how their PLEX is used as long as they get ISK out of it.
No one is buying AURUM. They're buying PLEX which has multiple uses.

EVE was and IS already rife with microtransactions. Microtransactions which can be used to get better ships, better implants and better modules.


Yeah PLEX microtransactions that don't hide content behind a $ paywall and thus cheapen the game.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#68 - 2011-12-08 00:38:59 UTC
Daneirkus Auralex wrote:
Soulpirate wrote:


There is nothing in EVE you can't gain through gameplay, NeX items inluded.


This is the main point.

Lets say the NEX didnt exist. If someone told you you could buy a decal for your ship for 700m ISK, would you buy it? While I agree the NEX sometimes seems like an unnecessary middle step, it currently is what it is. If I could rat in fountain for a few days in order to buy a couple plex and trade them for a badass alliance decal, I would.


If it was a decal that came from a loyalty point store or player manufactured I'd pay isk for it yes. Probably not 700m but I'd pay and be happy to pay to players for their industrial choices in the game.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#69 - 2011-12-08 00:40:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
DarkAegix wrote:
No one is buying AURUM.
…which means the NeX can safely be removed from the game because it has no use.
Quote:
EVE was and IS already rife with microtransactions.
…except that they're not microtransactions (or at least they weren't until the NeX was introduced).
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#70 - 2011-12-08 00:46:42 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Daneirkus Auralex wrote:
Soulpirate wrote:


There is nothing in EVE you can't gain through gameplay, NeX items inluded.


This is the main point.

Lets say the NEX didnt exist. If someone told you you could buy a decal for your ship for 700m ISK, would you buy it? While I agree the NEX sometimes seems like an unnecessary middle step, it currently is what it is. If I could rat in fountain for a few days in order to buy a couple plex and trade them for a badass alliance decal, I would.


If it was a decal that came from a loyalty point store or player manufactured I'd pay isk for it yes. Probably not 700m but I'd pay and be happy to pay to players for their industrial choices in the game.


In this we are almost aligned.

Items sold in the NeX need to be closely tied to player industry, either via BPC sale or requiring player created material assets as part of the purchase price.

Of course CCP has already stated that this is the goal for how the NeX store interface is going to be developed, so we are in good company. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2011-12-08 00:47:35 UTC
Activating Tippia post mode.
Tippia 'adjusting' quotes wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
No one is buying AURUM.
…which means the NeX is safe

See, you agree.

Tippia not supporting an argument wrote:
Quote:
EVE was and IS already rife with microtransactions.
…except that they're not microtransactions (or at least they weren't until the NeX was introduced).

Except they are microtransactions.


Learn to post, please!
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#72 - 2011-12-08 00:49:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Tippia wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
No one is buying AURUM.
…which means the NeX can safely be removed from the game because it has no use.
Quote:
EVE was and IS already rife with microtransactions.
…except that they're not microtransactions (or at least they weren't until the NeX was introduced).


They (for the most part) are not buying AURUM with cash. They are, however, buying AURUM with ISK.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#73 - 2011-12-08 00:50:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
DarkAegix wrote:
See, you agree.
Nice straw man idiot.
Quote:
Except they are microtransactions.
Since you can't buy in-game items with your cash, no.
Quote:
Learn to post, please!
At least I know how to post without altering quotes. You should try it.
Ranger 1 wrote:
They (for the most part) are not buying AURUM with cash. They are, however, buying AURUM with ISK.
…which means the NeX can safely be removed since it has no use. Aurum could be completely excised without having any effect whatsoever.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#74 - 2011-12-08 00:54:18 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
In this we are almost aligned. Items sold in the NeX need to be closely tied to player industry, either via BPC sale or requiring player created material assets as part of the purchase price.
Of course CCP has already stated that this is the goal for how the NeX store interface is going to be developed, so we are in good company. Smile


Have they recently? I'm not aware of any CCP communications on the issue of NeX post the Summer of Rage unsub crisis aside from Hilmar's comment that it was no longer a priority.


The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#75 - 2011-12-08 00:56:26 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Activating Tippia post mode.
Tippia 'adjusting' quotes wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
No one is buying AURUM.
…which means the NeX is safe

See, you agree.

Tippia not supporting an argument wrote:
Quote:
EVE was and IS already rife with microtransactions.
…except that they're not microtransactions (or at least they weren't until the NeX was introduced).

Except they are microtransactions.


Learn to post, please!


Well I differ from Tippia probably in that I view PLEX as a form of microtransaction. (just as I guess I view extra accounts as a form of "microtransaction") And yes, Eve has these things. But they don't destroy the player led economic sandbox. Hence why should we have crappy NeX microtransactions that do cheapen and erode the sandbox industry of Eve online (which is lets face it - one of the main selling points of the game) ?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#76 - 2011-12-08 00:58:54 UTC
Tippia wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
See, you agree.
Nice straw man idiot.
Quote:
Except they are microtransactions.
Since you can't buy in-game items with your cash, no.
Quote:
Learn to post, please!
At least I know how to post without altering quotes. You should try it.
Ranger 1 wrote:
They (for the most part) are not buying AURUM with cash. They are, however, buying AURUM with ISK.
…which means the NeX can safely be removed since it has no use. Aurum could be completely excised without having any effect whatsoever.



Except that AURUM is the cross over currency to be used for certain products in DUST and must be integrated into the EVE economy to serve that purpose.

And, I'm sorry to say this Tippia, but you selectively quoted him yourself (and by doing so changed the meaning of that part of his post to suit your purposes). I doubt you consciously intended to do that, but there it is.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2011-12-08 01:01:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
I can't take a joke and still refuse to see how I selectively alter quotes.

Sad








(Also, irony!)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#78 - 2011-12-08 01:06:32 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
In this we are almost aligned. Items sold in the NeX need to be closely tied to player industry, either via BPC sale or requiring player created material assets as part of the purchase price.
Of course CCP has already stated that this is the goal for how the NeX store interface is going to be developed, so we are in good company. Smile


Have they recently? I'm not aware of any CCP communications on the issue of NeX post the Summer of Rage unsub crisis aside from Hilmar's comment that it was no longer a priority.




The plan was laid out pretty clearly in the interview done during the last alliance tournament. This discussion centered around the plan to bring in ship logo's and skins, which as we know is still going full steam ahead.

We also see new NeX items listed in the database of market items, so apparently this is progressing as well.

Now I will grant you this, it is possible that they will choose to go a completely different path with these items. There has been no recent announcement either way (although it stands to reason that they would let public opinion soften on the issue a bit before opening this can of worms again).

However, that would likely have to include some restructuring as to how the DUST and EVE economies were going to align, and I'm really not sure if they have the flexibility to make that major a change this late in DUST's development cycle.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2011-12-08 01:09:01 UTC
Daneirkus Auralex wrote:
Corp and/or alliance logos on ships of my choice.


I guess that was the plan .. behind V3... We will see..

Just to put it back on track ..
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#80 - 2011-12-08 01:10:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ranger 1 wrote:
Except that AURUM is the cross over currency to be used for certain products in DUST and must be integrated into the EVE economy to serve that purpose.
Yes, and until they do, they have no purpose and could at that time be introduced in some way that's worth-while. The NeX is not needed. And seeing as how Dust is going to use ISK as well, and there is pretty much nothing that points to AUR having any additional purpose in EVE aside from maybe bribing bunnies so they don't have to buy it themselves (because in that game, AUR has a purpose as an MT currency but that only raises the question of why we should pay them real money for stuff that only exists in their game), it is not needed in EVE for the two to be integrated.

Even if AUR is the way to bribe some cheap-ass bunny, there is still no need to have AUR as a functional item in EVE. Sure, split those PLEXes up in more useful tradeable units to be doled out to the dust bunnies, but it can still be left completely outside of the EVE economy and simply serve that one purpose.
Quote:
And, I'm sorry to say this Tippia, but you selectively quoted him yourself (and by doing so changed the meaning of that part of his post to suit your purposes).
How did it change the meaning? He is saying that AUR is not something people aim to buy — it's a pointless intermediary stage with the sole purpose of immediately being flushed from the system — and as a result, you could remove that and its only use (the NeX) from the game without any ill effects. Anything and everything it does could (and should) be done with ISK instead.