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Reprocessing...... change is good.

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Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-07-23 06:06:07 UTC
So of the 11m ISK value of the loot I reprocessed, I got less than 1m ISK back..

love the changes, keep up the good work... game would be boring if it was too easy!
Azarion Sinak
678 lost souls
#2 - 2014-07-23 12:52:36 UTC
Bullock Brawn wrote:
So of the 11m ISK value of the loot I reprocessed, I got less than 1m ISK back..

love the changes, keep up the good work... game would be boring if it was too easy!


Not sure what your skills are at, but mine are maxed and I was still at 30 some percent waste. Is this really what reprocessing was supposed to be?
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#3 - 2014-07-23 13:09:14 UTC
Loot reprocessing is down to 55% max. Neither the reprocessing, nor the reprocess efficiency skill works on loot, only the scrapmetal processing skill, which rises facility efficiency by up to 10% (50% * 1.1 = 55%).

Loot reprocessing is dead, you should have done that before patch. That information was know since before kronos.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#4 - 2014-07-23 13:36:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Azarion Sinak wrote:

Not sure what your skills are at, but mine are maxed and I was still at 30 some percent waste. Is this really what reprocessing was supposed to be?


CURRENT 72.4% YIELD RESULTS IN THE SAME OUTPUT AS 100% YIELD ON MONDAY JULY 21

This is due to batch size and raw mineral yield changes.


PRE CRUIS VELDSPAR --> Stack of 333 = 1,000 Trit (less any applicable station taxes)

POST CRIUS VELDSPAR --> Stack of 100 = 415 Trit Base * 0.724 = 300.46 * 3.33 (to get back to "333" units of veld) = 1,000.5 <-- which is floored to 1,000 (or, 300 in the case of one refine).


In single refines, it'll look like you're getting less ... but let's refine 10,000 Veld.


OLD --> 10,000 / 333 = 30 refines * 1,000 Trit = 30, 000 Trit total
NEW --> 10,000 / 100 = 100 refines * 300.46 Trit = 30,046 Trit


What this has now let CCP do is introduce a +2% Hisec POS refining array that is slightly better (IIRC, 74.5% after skills), a +4% LOWSEC POS array, and re-worked the nullsec outposts to get you up around 60% base refine.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-07-23 14:21:41 UTC
I was just talking about the loot from mission running, not the mining part of the indy.

As I see it, it's no longer profitable to loot wrecks VS, just getting another mission.
I just came back to EVE and started a new toon from the beginning.. saves me from feeling
I have to add indy skills, now I won't bother.
Solai
Doughfleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#6 - 2014-07-23 19:28:41 UTC
This may negatively impact your experience, but it positively impacts a lot of people's experience. It was a change that needed to happen, within the broader context. Buying and gathering junk for reprocessing was one of my big businesses to, and it's been squashed, but it's very much for the best. The mineral output of junk reprocessing was causing problems for industry as a whole, and mining too, in addition to containing bum system elements, which have now been streamlined.

It may suck to lose that mineral/income source, but the truth is we should have never had it in the first place.
Bruski Popatopoulis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-07-23 19:58:38 UTC
I guess I really don't understand the new system yet. I can understand them wanting to make reprocessing skills more important and to expand the system, but doesn't this pretty much kill the returns from mission running?

From reading the forum, I get the impression that I should dump my Noctis, Salvager II's and Salvage drones, and just go back to mining with an alt and an Orca?

Or am I missing something?
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2014-07-23 20:12:58 UTC
I think the idea was to nerf gun-mining and buff asteroid mining.
voetius
Grundrisse
#9 - 2014-07-23 20:13:33 UTC
Bruski Popatopoulis wrote:
I guess I really don't understand the new system yet. I can understand them wanting to make reprocessing skills more important and to expand the system, but doesn't this pretty much kill the returns from mission running?

From reading the forum, I get the impression that I should dump my Noctis, Salvager II's and Salvage drones, and just go back to mining with an alt and an Orca?

Or am I missing something?


The thing that you are missing is that it hasn't been profitable to loot / salvage missions since drone alloys were removed.

Admittedly, the mobile tractor made it worthwhile to drop one in e.g. Gone Berserk IV, Mordus Headhunters IV and a couple of other missions and come back later, but you could still make more by not bothering to loot if you used your faction standing to do multiple declines in the 4 hour window.

As to mining, well, no, that's always been low income in high sec, tho level IV Mining Missions if you can cherry pick the gas and ice ones with faction standings works ok for 25 - 30 mill per hour.

OTOH, with the change to repro of mission loot, it does make mining more profitable, how much so we will see in the next few months.
Bruski Popatopoulis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-07-23 20:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Bruski Popatopoulis
Crap. I forgot about the Mobile Tractor units. Need to dump them, too.

You are right, I can use my main account and play the game of refusing missions. It always just seemed silly to me, but whatever. Lately, I've mostly been farming LP, anyway. So I guess it's no big deal.

I agree that salvaging on a lot of missions sucks, but some of them still pay pretty well. Using a second account with a Noctis and two of the mobile units, I can often clear all of the salvage while my main is flying back and forth between missions.

More importantly, though, it seems to kill the opportunity for newer players who don't have the standings, and for anyone who used high-sec reprocessing as a source of cheap minerals.

I guess change is good, but this really seems like it's going to really screw things up.
Julien Brellier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-07-23 21:04:50 UTC
Players were getting far too many minerals from reprocessing drone loot.
Drone loot got removed.
Players were getting far too many minerals from reprocessing normal loot.
Reprocessing got nerfed.

Minerals now come mainly from asteroids, as it should be.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-07-23 21:15:32 UTC
Solai wrote:
This may negatively impact your experience, but it positively impacts a lot of people's experience. It was a change that needed to happen, within the broader context. Buying and gathering junk for reprocessing was one of my big businesses to, and it's been squashed, but it's very much for the best. The mineral output of junk reprocessing was causing problems for industry as a whole, and mining too, in addition to containing bum system elements, which have now been streamlined.

It may suck to lose that mineral/income source, but the truth is we should have never had it in the first place.


I will have to copypaste this for when anoms or fw get nerfed.
Inir Ishtori
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-07-23 21:18:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Inir Ishtori
It is only logical to buff the most fun activity in the entirety of EVE by simply pooping all over something no one ever does, never. Since looting is even more worthless now, finally is it possible to reduce the number of active modules like tractor beams and salvagers on our ships, thus having less things to manage, and just press F1 even harder. Just what we all wished for. More fun in EvE.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#14 - 2014-07-23 21:29:32 UTC
You do know that even before Crius, reprocessing modules wouldn't generally give you the value you saw for them? As they often sell above mineral value.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Caiyuga Onishi
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#15 - 2014-07-23 21:29:52 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Azarion Sinak wrote:

Not sure what your skills are at, but mine are maxed and I was still at 30 some percent waste. Is this really what reprocessing was supposed to be?


CURRENT 72.4% YIELD RESULTS IN THE SAME OUTPUT AS 100% YIELD ON MONDAY JULY 21

This is due to batch size and raw mineral yield changes.


PRE CRUIS VELDSPAR --> Stack of 333 = 1,000 Trit (less any applicable station taxes)

POST CRIUS VELDSPAR --> Stack of 100 = 415 Trit Base * 0.724 = 300.46 * 3.33 (to get back to "333" units of veld) = 1,000.5 <-- which is floored to 1,000 (or, 300 in the case of one refine).


In single refines, it'll look like you're getting less ... but let's refine 10,000 Veld.


OLD --> 10,000 / 333 = 30 refines * 1,000 Trit = 30, 000 Trit total
NEW --> 10,000 / 100 = 100 refines * 300.46 Trit = 30,046 Trit


What this has now let CCP do is introduce a +2% Hisec POS refining array that is slightly better (IIRC, 74.5% after skills), a +4% LOWSEC POS array, and re-worked the nullsec outposts to get you up around 60% base refine.


I believe he was talking about scubmetal, also known as mission loot. ^^
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-07-24 13:55:00 UTC
Solai wrote:
This may negatively impact your experience, but it positively impacts a lot of people's experience. It was a change that needed to happen, within the broader context. Buying and gathering junk for reprocessing was one of my big businesses to, and it's been squashed, but it's very much for the best. The mineral output of junk reprocessing was causing problems for industry as a whole, and mining too, in addition to containing bum system elements, which have now been streamlined.

It may suck to lose that mineral/income source, but the truth is we should have never had it in the first place.



This makes sense....

I suppose CCP can run numbers to see if players by groups are getting an even deal. They haven't done anything with mission running since they started this game that I can tell, at least since 2011 for me and my earlier research. It was always enjoyable to me to do the full mission and not hurry them; which meant Kill, Loot, Salvage...... but now this may be my opportunity to get into PVP and be done with HS..



As a side note though these items will need to be adjusted in time I suppose to have any real value.
1) Tractors of any kind.
2) Noctis (seems like a dead ship now)
3) Salvagers and salvage drones (No use if you're not going to loot)
4) Return LP for Scrapmetal skills, etc.. etc..
Solai
Doughfleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#17 - 2014-07-24 16:51:18 UTC
Join a null- corp. It can be very engaging.

Although scrapmetal reprocessing has been effectively nerfed, it still gives a boost over what you'd receive otherwise, and it's also still the 'catchall' skill. It's still valuable, if you use it. So a refund probably wouldn't be appropriate.

I agree with your other 3 highlights though. Got a Noctis sitting in my hanger that I suspect I'll never fly again, unless it gets balance pass.

And I think I read somewhere that a PVE do-over is on the table, but the tools to make such a thing need to be created first. Sky's the limit there, but there's probably stuff that's higher in queue. Like corp/alliance/logistics management tools, and POS mechanics. Those would be a real game-changer.
stoicfaux
#18 - 2014-07-24 17:06:16 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
I think the idea was to nerf gun-mining and buff asteroid mining.

IIRC one of the devs said it was also to make industry more challenging by eliminating the ability to build mineral only items, see that they're not selling, and then melt them down to make into other stuff at ~100% efficiency. Meaning, with 100% reprocessing there was little risk of building the wrong thing.

With Crius, if you manufacture something, you had better make sure you can sell it first.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Sam Spock
The Arnold Connection
#19 - 2014-07-24 18:06:00 UTC
Um, forgive me if I just missed it but why would the Noctis, salvagers or salvage drones be dead? I don't recall anything about Salvaging being changed. Sure the loot is not worth as much bun the salvage is still the same. I guess you could still use some of the meta stuff in invention right? I have started to cherry-pick my wrecks and just take the stuff with a est value over 100k. If you don't even look you might miss a 2m meta module or more.



Giving you Inconsistent grammar, speilling and Punct-uation since 1974!
Solai
Doughfleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#20 - 2014-07-24 18:22:41 UTC
The reduction in junk value is a reduction in the value of the mission/etc looting process. For some, it's just fine. For others, it falls below the threshold of "I can make more money doing other things." Such as ignoring the loot/salvage to queue and finish another mission or anom. Meanwhile, the Noctis isn't the cheapest ship around, and a good fraction of what it could earn can be earned by a mobile tractor unit.

There's not an absolute value here, its all relative, but for many, this whole thing will be enough to rationally ignore looting/salvaging/noctis.
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