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Crius: Pay to install a job, IN MY OWN POS¿?

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Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#81 - 2014-07-23 14:39:25 UTC
IIRC plenty of people complained about this before the 22nd. Not everyone complaining now didn't read the forums or dev blogs.
Ryder 'ook
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2014-07-23 14:44:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryder 'ook
Kazekage Dono wrote:
Ryder 'ook wrote:
Kazekage Dono wrote:


When you're jealous surely the only thing left is to redicule it. I'm sitting on a 8 bil self built pvp stack of mods and ships tucked away in low. not even mentioning liquid assets. And how are you fairing in eve?



Thank you for asking.

I'm a newish player and I'm having heaps of fun with my people.

So, considering the fact that fun is my only valid metric of success in a game (YMMV, of course), I'm doing fantastic!

Cheers!


Believe it or not i think it's great you're having fun. Unlike most people playing eve, i get my fun accomplishing things few can accomplish. Not perse in killing others fun. Although fair enough i've had great fun irritating FW farmers in the past. But that would be the exception Cool. Sneaking up to them in covops ships, chasing them around for 30 minutes straight. I saw it as a players created problem (the farmers) so it should be solved by players as well.

This isn't an eve problem it's a society problem. If someone does better in life some government will step in, grab some dead weigt from those who don't do as good. Egalitarianism it's called. Everyone must arrive at the finish at the same time ... cause that's fair and stuff.

Reality is that smart people are being vastly outnumbered in this pampering from birth to death system. Due to lack of incentives smart people are less inclined to even participate in the running anymore. There is no win there is only dragging others weight around.

Dumbing down has been going on for a long time in the gaming industry and i had no doubt eve would follow in this. It is what it is. Economy is a ***** Bear.

All my whining aside don't stop having fun playing eve!




We will have to agree to disagree on society and politics.

I think that every gift (intelligence, wealth, education, power... you name it) inherently carries the duty to use said gift in a positive way for society, our species, and the biosphere as a whole.
In this (fundamentally prussian) value system, those who do better in life are bound to be the servants of those who don't.

... and from there follows my disagreement with basically everything you said ...

But that's just me.


Speaking about EvE: I hope you'll find it in you to please the Red Queen and do all the running you can do so that you may stay in the same place until the next change hits!

Cheers!

Every atom in our bodies was forged in the furnace of ancient stars - it's time we return home.
Kazekage Dono
Pertonas Development Inc
#83 - 2014-07-23 15:24:51 UTC
Ryder 'ook wrote:
Kazekage Dono wrote:
Ryder 'ook wrote:
Kazekage Dono wrote:


When you're jealous surely the only thing left is to redicule it. I'm sitting on a 8 bil self built pvp stack of mods and ships tucked away in low. not even mentioning liquid assets. And how are you fairing in eve?



Thank you for asking.

I'm a newish player and I'm having heaps of fun with my people.

So, considering the fact that fun is my only valid metric of success in a game (YMMV, of course), I'm doing fantastic!

Cheers!


Believe it or not i think it's great you're having fun. Unlike most people playing eve, i get my fun accomplishing things few can accomplish. Not perse in killing others fun. Although fair enough i've had great fun irritating FW farmers in the past. But that would be the exception Cool. Sneaking up to them in covops ships, chasing them around for 30 minutes straight. I saw it as a players created problem (the farmers) so it should be solved by players as well.

This isn't an eve problem it's a society problem. If someone does better in life some government will step in, grab some dead weigt from those who don't do as good. Egalitarianism it's called. Everyone must arrive at the finish at the same time ... cause that's fair and stuff.

Reality is that smart people are being vastly outnumbered in this pampering from birth to death system. Due to lack of incentives smart people are less inclined to even participate in the running anymore. There is no win there is only dragging others weight around.

Dumbing down has been going on for a long time in the gaming industry and i had no doubt eve would follow in this. It is what it is. Economy is a ***** Bear.

All my whining aside don't stop having fun playing eve!




We will have to agree to disagree on society and politics.

I think that every gift (intelligence, wealth, education, power... you name it) inherently carries the duty to use said gift in a positive way for society, our species, and the biosphere as a whole.
In this (fundamentally prussian) value system, those who do better in life are bound to be the servants of those who don't.

... and from there follows my disagreement with basically everything you said ...

But that's just me.


Speaking about EvE: I hope you'll find it in you to please the Red Queen and do all the running you can do so that you may stay in the same place until the next change hits!

Cheers!



I'll happely take the agree to disagree. And that's the beauty of it, i've ran so far i can take a long nap before seeing the red queen catch up to me Lol.
Korso Kombarro
Shadows of the Day
#84 - 2014-07-23 16:40:23 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
At this point I think it's not unfair to say that the public education system has failed us.


When all else has failed you, Unsuccessful at Everything wont. I refuse to not fail at failure!

Wait.. was that.. nope.. seems right.
Wait a second. If you are successful at being unsuccessful at everything then you cant say that you are successful at being unsuccessful at everything because its not totally everything anymore.
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#85 - 2014-07-23 20:28:15 UTC
Kazekage Dono wrote:
Believe it or not i think it's great you're having fun. Unlike most people playing eve, i get my fun accomplishing things few can accomplish. Not perse in killing others fun. Although fair enough i've had great fun irritating FW farmers in the past. But that would be the exception Cool. Sneaking up to them in covops ships, chasing them around for 30 minutes straight. I saw it as a players created problem (the farmers) so it should be solved by players as well.

This isn't an eve problem it's a society problem. If someone does better in life some government will step in, grab some dead weigt from those who don't do as good. Egalitarianism it's called. Everyone must arrive at the finish at the same time ... cause that's fair and stuff.

Reality is that smart people are being vastly outnumbered in this pampering from birth to death system. Due to lack of incentives smart people are less inclined to even participate in the running anymore. There is no win there is only dragging others weight around.

Dumbing down has been going on for a long time in the gaming industry and i had no doubt eve would follow in this. It is what it is. Economy is a ***** Bear.

All my whining aside don't stop having fun playing eve!


You should try to shrug your shoulders more Mr. Atlas...maybe just go ahead and go Galt on us to save us this drivel; have to admit that going Galt in Eve should be easy as pie unlike the real world.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
flakeys
Doomheim
#86 - 2014-07-23 20:30:18 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Kazekage Dono wrote:


Why you want to infiltrate me and rip me off? Big smile


How do you infiltrate an NPC corp?



I'm doing my best but god damned it's hard ...

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#87 - 2014-07-24 01:58:57 UTC
Ryder 'ook wrote:


I think that every gift (intelligence, wealth, education, power... you name it) inherently carries the duty to use said gift in a positive way for society, our species, and the biosphere as a whole.
In this (fundamentally prussian) value system, those who do better in life are bound to be the servants of those who don't.

... and from there follows my disagreement with basically everything you said ...



Pardon me for butting into your off-topic

Gifts? Is there a store or something where I can buy "intelligence, wealth, education, power" for my friends? All of those things...ALL OF THEM... are earned through hard work. Therein lies the problem with your philosophy. You think traits and skills that people invest time, sweat and sacrifice into are simply given to them. I'm not sure who you believe is handing out "intelligence, wealth, education, power" but that's a pretty insulting thing to say to people who've earned their place.

VERY insulting.

KB

Dum Spiro Spero
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2014-07-24 04:23:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiply Rustic
KaarBaak wrote:
Ryder 'ook wrote:


I think that every gift (intelligence, wealth, education, power... you name it) inherently carries the duty to use said gift in a positive way for society, our species, and the biosphere as a whole.
In this (fundamentally prussian) value system, those who do better in life are bound to be the servants of those who don't.

... and from there follows my disagreement with basically everything you said ...



Pardon me for butting into your off-topic

Gifts? Is there a store or something where I can buy "intelligence, wealth, education, power" for my friends? All of those things...ALL OF THEM... are earned through hard work. Therein lies the problem with your philosophy. You think traits and skills that people invest time, sweat and sacrifice into are simply given to them. I'm not sure who you believe is handing out "intelligence, wealth, education, power" but that's a pretty insulting thing to say to people who've earned their place.

VERY insulting.

KB


Well let's see...

You have nothing to do with whatever intelligence you have. Now what you do with it is another story.

The rest? Well, we'll skip over generational wealth because that's low-hanging fruit.

Wealth and power can not be accumulated in a vacuum, and can not be accumulated without the infrastructure provided by society at-large. "You didn't build that", ludicrously taken out of context so often, is true. You didn't build the schools you went to, you didn't build the car mom dropped you off there with, or the roads, utilities, etc. You didn't build the college you went to or the company you landed at to get your start. If you invented something and made it that way, others provided the environment for that to happen in...

Beyond that, other than the wealth "created" (there is no such thing, there is merely the movement and conversion of assets) by the process of moving 0s and 1s from one account to the next and back again, without the consumer there is no market. Without that market then the rich, well, aren't.

Do those who used the existing infrastructure to succeed owe something back to that infrastructure? f'ing-A right they do.

VERY insulting? No, but I can work on that if you wish.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2014-07-24 04:44:28 UTC
Ownership is a lie.
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#90 - 2014-07-24 05:02:00 UTC
Quote:


Do those who used the existing infrastructure to succeed owe something back to that infrastructure? f'ing-A right they do.

VERY insulting? No, but I can work on that if you wish.


Yeah, cuz it's not like they and their parents and grandparents etc were taxed to death to pay for that infrastructure. I have no children, yet I pay local property taxes that fund the neighor's kids publik skool. Who owes who what?


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Ryder 'ook
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2014-07-24 08:03:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryder 'ook
KaarBaak wrote:
Ryder 'ook wrote:


I think that every gift (intelligence, wealth, education, power... you name it) inherently carries the duty to use said gift in a positive way for society, our species, and the biosphere as a whole.
In this (fundamentally prussian) value system, those who do better in life are bound to be the servants of those who don't.

... and from there follows my disagreement with basically everything you said ...



Pardon me for butting into your off-topic

Gifts? Is there a store or something where I can buy "intelligence, wealth, education, power" for my friends? All of those things...ALL OF THEM... are earned through hard work. Therein lies the problem with your philosophy. You think traits and skills that people invest time, sweat and sacrifice into are simply given to them. I'm not sure who you believe is handing out "intelligence, wealth, education, power" but that's a pretty insulting thing to say to people who've earned their place.

VERY insulting.

KB



Very insulting you think?

Well, let me elaborate a bit more, if I may...


First, all the foundations for your (or my) success are gifts. No one came to us before our birth and asked us how we would like our intelligence, our toughness, our stress resilience etc.
The same goes for opportunities. The schools we went to, the teachers we had, the chances we took. All this was as much luck as it was hard work. And even the opportunity to work hard is contingent upon external circumstances that have never been under our control.

This is in no way supposed to devalue hard work and intuition. I know pretty well what it feels like to work for your place in life, to stand up again after a blow. I come from a poor family and I am the first one in my family ever to having acquired university-level education.

But none of this came from a vacuum. All was based on the chances we were presented with, on the luck we had in the genetic lottery, on our upbringing and our education. On gifts that were given to us.


And if not we, the strong ones, the lucky ones, the successful ones are responsible, who is? The weak? The unlucky? The unsuccessful?

I see many people deny their responsibilities like you do. I see many people ignore the circumstances that made their success possible like you do. And instead attribute everything solely on their own deeds, using this false premise as a cop-out to deny their responsibility. To deny their duty.


And I lament that.

When the strongest members of society ignore and deny their duty to the whole, civilisation is on the decline...

Every atom in our bodies was forged in the furnace of ancient stars - it's time we return home.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#92 - 2014-07-24 09:26:33 UTC
Ryder 'ook wrote:
]We will have to agree to disagree on society and politics.

I think that every gift (intelligence, wealth, education, power... you name it) inherently carries the duty to use said gift in a positive way for society, our species, and the biosphere as a whole.
In this (fundamentally prussian) value system, those who do better in life are bound to be the servants of those who don't.


I don't know about you but I find the moral certainty of people who claim to be "doing good" quite a frightening concept, especially in a historical context and especially with the word "Prussian" in the sentence.

Back to reality please.
Darryn Lowe
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2014-07-24 09:33:32 UTC
Speaking as someone who's busted his gut to get a station up and running and has now had it running for two days without doing anything I LOVE this update. I don't care if I'm less efficient, I don't care if jobs cost me to do, I FREAKING OWN MY OWN POS.

I know that to many that doesn't matter, they've probably been doing it for ages but I can mine in my own space on my own terms in high sec where I like to hang out. I run a two man corp specifically for myself so I can do things my own way.

Sure it might annoy a few old hats but it brings a new dimension to the casuals that don't have the connections to do Low and Null.

Thanks CCP, I've been wanting to do this since I started Eve and you've given me the tools to do it.
Ryder 'ook
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2014-07-24 09:51:12 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Ryder 'ook wrote:
]We will have to agree to disagree on society and politics.

I think that every gift (intelligence, wealth, education, power... you name it) inherently carries the duty to use said gift in a positive way for society, our species, and the biosphere as a whole.
In this (fundamentally prussian) value system, those who do better in life are bound to be the servants of those who don't.


I don't know about you but I find the moral certainty of people who claim to be "doing good" quite a frightening concept, especially in a historical context and especially with the word "Prussian" in the sentence.

Back to reality please.




Acceptance and recognition of responsibility is what I'm talking about.

Practical implementation and the question of what constitutes a positive impact is a completely different can of worms and yes, it gets messy pretty quickly, especially when value systems are too rigid and acquire momentum in the wrong direction.
But not even trying to make things better is no solution, either.

And whatever value system, moral code, philosophy or tradition you are using, I'm sure I can find examples of perversion and abuse.

I'm not trying to win a popularity contest here. Responsibility and sense of duty are the key elements in my opinion. And I stand by my word.

Every atom in our bodies was forged in the furnace of ancient stars - it's time we return home.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#95 - 2014-07-24 10:20:57 UTC
Yoink.

And using your own POS for industry is still the road to untold riches.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2014-07-24 10:27:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
This is my new gimmick for the next month.

the ******* bastard.

you fail? blame him!
you win? blame him!
you have luck? blame him!
it starts to rain? blame him!
you woke up this morning? blame him!

Tzeentch's web is so overspunned that even the traps have traps for their traps so that others may fall in other traps on the bottom of the traps that were after the trap you just passed through.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#97 - 2014-07-24 10:32:02 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
This is my new gimmick for the next month.

the ******* bastard.

you fail? blame him!
you win? blame him!
you have luck? blame him!
it starts to rain? blame him!
you woke up this morning? blame him!

Tzeentch's web is so overspunned that even the traps have traps for their traps so that others may fall in other traps on the bottom of the traps that were after the trap you just passed through.

Yes, but can you blame him? If his plans ever came to full fruition and didn't fall into any of his traps, he'd lose and cease to exist.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2014-07-24 10:43:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
This is my new gimmick for the next month.

the ******* bastard.

you fail? blame him!
you win? blame him!
you have luck? blame him!
it starts to rain? blame him!
you woke up this morning? blame him!

Tzeentch's web is so overspunned that even the traps have traps for their traps so that others may fall in other traps on the bottom of the traps that were after the trap you just passed through.

Yes, but can you blame him? If his plans ever came to full fruition and didn't fall into any of his traps, he'd lose and cease to exist.

thus why he's the most glorious bastard of them allCool

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#99 - 2014-07-24 13:23:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Mistah Ewedynao
Darryn Lowe wrote:
Speaking as someone who's busted his gut to get a station up and running and has now had it running for two days without doing anything I LOVE this update. I don't care if I'm less efficient, I don't care if jobs cost me to do, I FREAKING OWN MY OWN POS.

I know that to many that doesn't matter, they've probably been doing it for ages but I can mine in my own space on my own terms in high sec where I like to hang out. I run a two man corp specifically for myself so I can do things my own way.

Sure it might annoy a few old hats but it brings a new dimension to the casuals that don't have the connections to do Low and Null.

Thanks CCP, I've been wanting to do this since I started Eve and you've given me the tools to do it.


Good for you...sorta.

You see I busted my gut training skills, trading, building and selling stuff, running freakin BORING missions, epic arcs, mining when forced and spending lots of isk on tags to do data centers for a couple of years to get the skills and standings to put up my first POS.

The only positive side for is that there is NO WAY you could have anywhere near the sense of accomplishment I did when my first tower went up.

Enjoy your instant gratification...easy come, easy go.

edit: Oh... I don't care if I'm less efficient, I don't care if jobs cost me to do, I FREAKING OWN MY OWN POS.


Yep and the minerals you mine are free too right?

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#100 - 2014-07-24 14:26:27 UTC
Is it true there are job costs for manufacturing inside a wormhole now? That doesn't make sense. No factions or Concord in W-Space to pay.