EVE General Discussion

I found this part interesting as well, I think it was Drac who was played to the extent were friendship between us may not be possible.

FYI Drac, I have followed, I've been cool with joining other peoples alliances and corps and actively taking part in the group to advance our common goals. I've found that it never leads anywhere and that I've wasted my time. My goal with hub zero was to give myself a chance to lead something where failure was not an option. Part of the reason why I founded this is because I felt that nobody was on a noble cause everyone seems to be about isk or bullying others into submission.

What exactly would you suggest I follow Drac? Ganking? Suicide ganking in hi sec? never ending sov battles? You seem to gloss over the fact that I've been playing for over 11 years.

This is a very dangerous area of space and it takes lots of skill to live here and be happy. Because of this someone like me is required in order to achieve a goal such as hub zero. I'm gonna tell it like it is, there are some folks down here who have lost 2 or 3 ships every day to hazards that could be easily avoided with a bit of co-ordination, just the other day I heard a carrier pilot doing a POS bash when the owners of the POS were active and almost lose 2 billion. I even heard a dude claiming a shield AND armor tanked navy vexor was a good idea How are we going to appeal to people and grow if we can't show any discipline or careful consideration for our own assets or simply talk and come up with logical effective fits?. People will look at our billions in loss and think we have no idea what we are doing.

Loss limitation is a large part of my approach and it is important to the growth and survival of any operation, I know I drive a hard bargain at times. Hub Zero is my baby and I get defensive when people try to turn it into something it is not.

The truth is I would have been cool with the drama queen I kicked (from TS and hub chat channels) I would have remained blue to him and stood back as he went about his business. I wanted to remove his access to the community because his only goal was to dominate and have disregard for other peoples resource and he did not care who he had to step upon to achieve that. I know I would have asked him to rejoin the group at some point I am not blind and I could see people liked him and it would be unfair of me to deny people friendships with others just because I have a problem with them.

Drac, step back and let me get on with it.

Hell yes, it is irrelevant and means nothing in a game that is vastly different in terms of ship behavior and key mechanics to the game 2 years ago and yet you seem to think it means something and that I and others have to give you respect because you have played for 11 years. It means nothing and that you keep throwing it in whenever you have a disagreement with anyone makes you look even more foolish, what is important is that you know the ships and mechanics now, and at this point you do not in terms of being an effective FC.

You kept using that line with Gravitas and he had total contempt for it, and everyone was laughing behind your back when you made this point, it means nothing in terms of leadership and being effective, it just means you have played this game for 11 years...

I'm pretty shure in this particular post you are referring to Aaron just wanted to drop a hint that as seasoned player he already tried all these aforementioned activities (sov battles, ganking, dominating, isk grinding etc) and get bored of them, not that he is an ablsolute guru of the Eve. You both wind up too easly and act in the heat of passion hastily - thing leaders should be more insusceptible to.

I havent either, but I can read your posts here.

Also, your second retort pretty much proves the first point Ray raised.

You two (D and A) are both not doing your organisation any favours by doing this in public.

1) that you have a fair point on, and I will hold up my hand to that one, that was an error on my part, however we had had three days of this splat between him and Chevere, Aaron had agreed to let Tylo deal with it and each day we would have another incident, when I spoke to Aaron and asked him to step back his voice indicated that he was not agreeing with me in the way he said yes to me in not getting involved, so he was not honest enough to say no. But once Chevere had put a bounty on him and set him personally red we would have acted, Aaron should have banned him and not the other guy and sent the other leaders a mail to say what happened.

Ray with respect, I have known Aaron a long time and I have seen him use that phrase multiple times in strong discussions to try to say the other person was wrong, in other words he knows best because he is an old player, I keep telling him not to use that sentence, because people really hate it and take the mick out of it, but he keeps using it, doesn't he get it that its meaningless and just winds up the other person.

And another thing he does not gank and he has hardly done any sov warfare at all.

Edit: The only reason I am still posting on this and are still in the Hub Zero channel is because Moac asked me to hold on a bit, and that a number of people have said they will leave if I leave, which I do not want, but rather than continue this I will leave Hub-Zero now and stop posting. I wish you well.

I'm SO happy that you have all decided collectively to get back to the one thing that Hub Zero was ever truly good for: Creating wonderful forum drama!

On a personal level, it's very gratifying that Dracvlad has FINALLY come to the exact same conclusion that I (and quite a few others) reached 4 years ago after spending a day or two around Aaron. His description of Aaron is spot on. I guess some people are slow learners but better late than never!

And FWIW I don't dislike Aaron personally. He's quite a character. But FOLLOW his 'leadership'? Surely you jest. He'd be a good guy to have around in a mid-level leadership spot as kind of the village idiot or the class clown, but to actually be THE guy in charge? Ummm, no.

I hope this doesnt cause planets to collide......but I agree with Ramona. Who would want to be part of any organization that airs its dirty laundry in public. Denotes lack of maturity.

Shame really because I was really pulling for the underdog.

After much thought and thoroughly reading this entire thread and everything it has become, I have taken the liberty to post a summary in video form.

This video should be sufficient to catch people up who are just joining this forum thread, and also to serve as a refresher for veterans of the thread as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flOQ24Qku1s

Aaron, if you already haven't, please take the time to view my video summary posted in the link above. I believe it is in fact so accurate, that I can now hear the video's audio when I look at your character portrait.

Facts of what happened as I remember them:

- Tev left TS3 channels and Hub chat channels of his own free will
- I was set red by chev and he applied a bounty to me, it was at this point I kicked him
- I immediately talked with Moac regarding my actions to which he agreed to and understood.
- Tev came into my local and attempted to find me with combat scanner probes
- I responded by kicking chev from teamspeak and attempted to reason with tev

I think I dealt with what occurred exactly how a leader would have.