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Crius Issues

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Nahasaki
Warpspeed Shipping Inc.
#421 - 2014-07-23 12:30:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Nahasaki
Please point out some flaw in my observations because right now I think RE is pretty borked:


If you take a look at the statistics for Reverse Engineering on the star map you will notice three things:

1. Few hot spot systems and no activity elsewhere
2. Few jobs installed in the last 24h
3. Ludicrously high cost indices

Under the assumptions that:

- Universe-wide actvity is surprisingly low
- Activity is somewhat immobile (especially bad if you have to move wormholes)
- Little activity is enough to be a significant fraction of the universe wide activity.
- Cost indizes are updated daily

You'd require T3 production to move shop (pos and all) once per week to a different system.

To me it looks like it would be prefereable to not make the distinction between invention and reverse engineering for Cost Indices.



Yesterday one system with 30 jobs in the past 24h had a cost index of 0.31.
I ran 5 RE jobs yesterday at 0.00 Cost Index in a pristine 0.9 system.
Today the map says there were 5 RE jobs in the last 24h and the Cost Index has risen to 0.05.


TL;DR; The impact of single players on the formulas for Cost Indices are not invariant w.r.t the total number of jobs in the universe ; Everything is weighted the same no matter how many people are doing some type of activity; Quirky behaviour results for things like Reverse Engineering which almost nobody bothers with / is used for few item types.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#422 - 2014-07-23 12:34:04 UTC
Kenneth Skybound wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Kenneth Skybound wrote:
Greyscale, is it possible to have confirmation on my suspicions regarding job prices in systems with no price index? Page 15.


Can you verify the issue is still occurring? We fixed a bug in research pricing at downtime that may be the root problem.


Verified still a problem.

While the costs have come down CONSIDERABLY, comparing one blueprint I have in Algogille (Thorax, 0 TE), 10 levels of research would be 12.5m, while if done next door in Renyn (no research stations) it'd be 480m.


Do you have a starbase in Renyn to do the work in? There is some weirdness with prices being displayed for invalid facilities that might be contributing here.
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#423 - 2014-07-23 12:43:19 UTC
Damage Control II still requires Nocxium
Bobbie Sioux
Arax Solutions
#424 - 2014-07-23 12:44:18 UTC
I feel like I'm shouting into the void here and in the support ticket I've opened for this issue, which has received no response.

Half of my T2 component blueprints have effectively been confiscated by a broken industry system and thus my entire manufacturing line has ground to a halt for two days now.

To recap:

  • Start manufacturing jobs in a POS, post-patch, for about 30 blueprints
  • Deliver the first 10 or so successfully
  • Remaining jobs finish and show "Deliver" option in jobs window
  • Pressing "Deliver" and "Deliver all jobs" does nothing. No error. No sound. No feedback of any kind.
  • Blueprints for jobs in perpetual preparation for delivery do not appear in the list of blueprints for the facility they were installed in, unlike the blueprints for the remaining jobs in progress.
  • Several jobs have since finished and been delivered successfully, though they were invention and copy jobs, not manufacturing.
Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
#425 - 2014-07-23 12:45:30 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Kenneth Skybound wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Kenneth Skybound wrote:
Greyscale, is it possible to have confirmation on my suspicions regarding job prices in systems with no price index? Page 15.


Can you verify the issue is still occurring? We fixed a bug in research pricing at downtime that may be the root problem.


Verified still a problem.

While the costs have come down CONSIDERABLY, comparing one blueprint I have in Algogille (Thorax, 0 TE), 10 levels of research would be 12.5m, while if done next door in Renyn (no research stations) it'd be 480m.


Do you have a starbase in Renyn to do the work in? There is some weirdness with prices being displayed for invalid facilities that might be contributing here.


No, I don't have a starbase there at this time. Unfortunately I do not have access to starbase facilities to further that investigation sorry.
Sai Karkovatchik
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#426 - 2014-07-23 12:45:53 UTC
Hi,

My BPC aren t in a container.
I launched Inventions, ans now, when i want to deliver it, i have the message :

"Not enought shelf space"

"You can't add the Warp Core Stabilizer II Blueprint as there are simply too many items here already."

??

Thanks
MissPrissy
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#427 - 2014-07-23 12:48:25 UTC  |  Edited by: MissPrissy
Sai Karkovatchik wrote:
Hi,

My BPC aren t in a container.
I launched Inventions, ans now, when i want to deliver it, i have the message :

"Not enought shelf space"

"You can't add the Warp Core Stabilizer II Blueprint as there are simply too many items here already."

??

Thanks


Others in the thread have found that removing any containers from the location the job was meant to deliver to worked for them.

Edit: The same thing might be your issue Bobbie Sioux.
Miro12379 Makbema
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#428 - 2014-07-23 12:53:56 UTC
Invention still broken.

Decryptors does not have any effects on required materials for T2 rigs production.
Sai Karkovatchik
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#429 - 2014-07-23 12:56:29 UTC
MissPrissy wrote:
Sai Karkovatchik wrote:
Hi,

My BPC aren t in a container.
I launched Inventions, ans now, when i want to deliver it, i have the message :

"Not enought shelf space"

"You can't add the Warp Core Stabilizer II Blueprint as there are simply too many items here already."

??

Thanks


Others in the thread have found that removing any containers from the location the job was meant to deliver to worked for them.

Edit: The same thing might be your issue Bobbie Sioux.


Thx, but i have no container in this station
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#430 - 2014-07-23 12:56:57 UTC
Mhari Dson wrote:
Damage Control II still requires Nocxium


Yup, it's a known issue, will be fixed in the next week or so most likely. Work is done, we just need to verify that all the changes are correct.

Kenneth Skybound wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Kenneth Skybound wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Kenneth Skybound wrote:
Greyscale, is it possible to have confirmation on my suspicions regarding job prices in systems with no price index? Page 15.


Can you verify the issue is still occurring? We fixed a bug in research pricing at downtime that may be the root problem.


Verified still a problem.

While the costs have come down CONSIDERABLY, comparing one blueprint I have in Algogille (Thorax, 0 TE), 10 levels of research would be 12.5m, while if done next door in Renyn (no research stations) it'd be 480m.


Do you have a starbase in Renyn to do the work in? There is some weirdness with prices being displayed for invalid facilities that might be contributing here.


No, I don't have a starbase there at this time. Unfortunately I do not have access to starbase facilities to further that investigation sorry.


Ok, thanks for the info :)

Miro12379 Makbema wrote:
Invention still broken.

Decryptors does not have any effects on required materials for T2 rigs production.


That's likely working as intended, particularly for smaller rigs - decryptors only reduce build reqs by single-digit percentages now, so for smaller rigs that's unlikely to yield per-unit savings.
Nina Smirnoff
Air Traffic Control
#431 - 2014-07-23 12:59:26 UTC
Is system index update working fine? Yesterday my systrm index was 0.0009 (crest and verified ingame when installing a job) and today is 0.0046(crest) Im sure im the only one producing (only pos in system and no station). That is 5 times higher. Sure that you used 28 days mean? That would mean my expected index is 0.1288 in 28 days (x/28 = 0.0046).... For just 1 character (10 lines).
Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
#432 - 2014-07-23 13:08:18 UTC
Nina Smirnoff wrote:
Is system index update working fine? Yesterday my systrm index was 0.0009 (crest and verified ingame when installing a job) and today is 0.0046(crest) Im sure im the only one producing (only pos in system and no station). That is 5 times higher. Sure that you used 28 days mean? That would mean my expected index is 0.1288 in 28 days (x/28 = 0.0046).... For just 1 character (10 lines).


0.0009 index would mean about 8 in every 100 million job hours were performed there. 0.0046 scales that to 2 in every 100 thousand. So, I figure you've performed some 250 times more industry there then there was in the previous month. (Rough estimation).

you keep that up over 30 days, 250*30 is 7500, which would likely translate to an index of around 0.078.

I'm making a few assumptions in these calculations, but basically it's a logarithmic progression, with four times the industry incurring two times the cost.
Clifton Oksaras
Doomheim
#433 - 2014-07-23 13:10:32 UTC
So I did 500 runs of R.A.M. Ammunition Tech, and the amount of Tritanium for 1 run of that is 491. The amount for 500 runs is 245197, which is less than the 245500 I expected it would cost. When I asked in the help channel they said it was a rounding error, that it didn't cost 491 but something closer to 490.34 and was rounding up. I was wondering if you could program the blueprints to reflect to however many digits what the actual cost per ingredient is to clear up any potential confusion?
Nina Smirnoff
Air Traffic Control
#434 - 2014-07-23 13:14:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Nina Smirnoff
Kenneth Skybound wrote:
Nina Smirnoff wrote:
Is system index update working fine? Yesterday my systrm index was 0.0009 (crest and verified ingame when installing a job) and today is 0.0046(crest) Im sure im the only one producing (only pos in system and no station). That is 5 times higher. Sure that you used 28 days mean? That would mean my expected index is 0.1288 in 28 days (x/28 = 0.0046).... For just 1 character (10 lines).


0.0009 index would mean about 8 in every 100 million job hours were performed there. 0.0046 scales that to 2 in every 100 thousand. So, I figure you've performed some 250 times more industry there then there was in the previous month. (Rough estimation).

you keep that up over 30 days, 250*30 is 7500, which would likely translate to an index of around 0.078.

I'm making a few assumptions in these calculations, but basically it's a logarithmic progression, with four times the industry incurring two times the cost.


There is a minimum value to system that had 0 production (0.001 index or 0.000001 because the square root).
I think that is something with that fact. There was no production on that system before crius...
Miro12379 Makbema
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#435 - 2014-07-23 13:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Miro12379 Makbema
CCP Greyscale wrote:




Miro12379 Makbema wrote:
Invention still broken.

Decryptors does not have any effects on required materials for T2 rigs production.


That's likely working as intended, particularly for smaller rigs - decryptors only reduce build reqs by single-digit percentages now, so for smaller rigs that's unlikely to yield per-unit savings.


Am I missing something here??

Lets take Capital Capacitor Control Circuit II

invention with no decryptors: 98 x Power Circuit, 113 x Logic Circuit, 30 x Capacitor Console, 2x R.A.M
invention with Occult Accelerant : 98 x Power Circuit, 113 x Logic Circuit, 30 x Capacitor Console, 2x R.A.M
invention with Occult Symmetry: 98 x Power Circuit, 113 x Logic Circuit, 30 x Capacitor Console, 2x R.A.M

So basicly there is no diffrence for input materials = no point to use decryptors. Is that right ?

What does it mean Material Efficiency for T2 rigs ?



EDIT: It's the same story for medium and large rigs
Bobbie Sioux
Arax Solutions
#436 - 2014-07-23 13:19:16 UTC
MissPrissy wrote:
Sai Karkovatchik wrote:
Hi,

My BPC aren t in a container.
I launched Inventions, ans now, when i want to deliver it, i have the message :

"Not enought shelf space"

"You can't add the Warp Core Stabilizer II Blueprint as there are simply too many items here already."

??

Thanks


Others in the thread have found that removing any containers from the location the job was meant to deliver to worked for them.

Edit: The same thing might be your issue Bobbie Sioux.


Nope, no containers in the facility where the jobs are stuck and no error message.
Bubbi SemByggir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#437 - 2014-07-23 13:27:26 UTC
Hello there ! First i want to say i love the new UI its sooo much quicker and simpler to make stuff good job on that !
But here comes the pain
Yesterday when the patch was deplyed i see that all my manufacture products where moved to the station so my and my corpie started to reorganize the pos, but now me and him cant deliver all production so i been kinda stuck with full 10 production slots used and cant deliver or cancel. I wrote the pentition and even waited to todays downtime but nothing changed :/ could you plz look into this for me ?

<3
p.s. Sorry for my english ;)
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#438 - 2014-07-23 13:28:27 UTC
Bobbie Sioux wrote:
MissPrissy wrote:
Sai Karkovatchik wrote:
Hi,

My BPC aren t in a container.
I launched Inventions, ans now, when i want to deliver it, i have the message :

"Not enought shelf space"

"You can't add the Warp Core Stabilizer II Blueprint as there are simply too many items here already."

??

Thanks


Others in the thread have found that removing any containers from the location the job was meant to deliver to worked for them.

Edit: The same thing might be your issue Bobbie Sioux.


Nope, no containers in the facility where the jobs are stuck and no error message.



#1 this sounds more like the stack limit, how many stacks of items do you have in there? Can't recall the limit nowadays but it's 1k+ somewhere, I hafta fight with it with hordes of bpc's.

#2 try dropping a container in and then delivering (reverse psychology the bastage)
Sai Karkovatchik
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#439 - 2014-07-23 13:36:55 UTC
Mhari Dson wrote:
Bobbie Sioux wrote:
MissPrissy wrote:
Sai Karkovatchik wrote:
Hi,

My BPC aren t in a container.
I launched Inventions, ans now, when i want to deliver it, i have the message :

"Not enought shelf space"

"You can't add the Warp Core Stabilizer II Blueprint as there are simply too many items here already."

??

Thanks


Others in the thread have found that removing any containers from the location the job was meant to deliver to worked for them.

Edit: The same thing might be your issue Bobbie Sioux.


Nope, no containers in the facility where the jobs are stuck and no error message.



#1 this sounds more like the stack limit, how many stacks of items do you have in there? Can't recall the limit nowadays but it's 1k+ somewhere, I hafta fight with it with hordes of bpc's.

#2 try dropping a container in and then delivering (reverse psychology the bastage)


Well, i puted some stuff in my ships, and i delivered.... Awesome for a hangar with unlimit capacity ...
Anyway, thx
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#440 - 2014-07-23 13:45:33 UTC  |  Edited by: KIller Wabbit
Trying to start an invention job, but somehow I selected a "team". I do not see any feedback that I have selected a team in the upper blue print area. In the "Teams" tab I can highlight a team, but cannot find anyway to un-highlight a team. Certainly nothing in the lower part confirms to me that I have actually selected a team. No teams are in my system anyways.

Edit: Forum corrupted post