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Science & Industry

 
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Cost scaling - a TOTAL disaster for Science and Industry

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Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-07-23 10:27:43 UTC
Clara Tironis wrote:
I was in the middle of getting ME to 16 (perfect) went the patch was announced and needed the freighter BPO to run some jobs. No way I could have started TE or got it more than PE 1 before the patch on that one. Nearly all my other (100s) BPOs are now ME 10 % TE 20%, thankfully. Just about 20 rig BPOs to get to ME 10% from 0, for an insane amount of installation cost (and time ) post Crius, of course.

And I've shelved any plans to get into other racial T1 ship BPOs until this has all sorted itself out. That's if I'm still interested in industry if the costs are not fixed to a reasonable level. I'm absolutely sure that it was not intended that installation costs for a freighter manufacturing or research job in a 0.01 cost scaling factor system should be more than 100% of the mineral (i.e. Input cost) . At least, that wasn't my reading of the Dev Blogs and forum post prior to the evil patch.


Fair enough, I have to agree that the cost of researching/manufacturing big stuff seems a bit steep though, i'll stick to my T1 bits and bobs for now, with the odd low lvl T2 ammo or drone thrown in.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#22 - 2014-07-23 10:28:26 UTC
OP, you're in a bind of your own making, because the maths are something to the effect of

install cost (reduction?) = install base cost * ( 1/ (activity in this system / activity across new eden)) , further modifiable by teams and whatnot. So, if you have (for example) 5% of the TOTAL MFG INPUT (i.e. "Jobs started") in your system for the last 28 days, then your install cost = base_install * 0.95.

Now, this also has an upper-limit function where if the system has more than x% of the job installations, then prices start rising again (taxes to keep the space EPA happy or some BS like that).


However, CCP also ignored the problems in SISI, because "well we pulled TQ data for this part, so the numbers are skewed to be godawful, it'll be fine on TQ".

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-07-23 10:32:50 UTC
So nobody's confirmed it's an actual bug or working as intended. I say hold fire on all jobs until you know.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-07-23 10:34:31 UTC
Rowells wrote:
am i the only one who is re-writing his training plans and mining alts into industry/research?


It's quite mysterious to me why you think the new system is any different from the old one in terms of what you actually do. So I have absolutely no idea why you would suddenly be interested in industry now when you weren't before, except the fact you might be a lemming and hyper-sensitive to marketing.
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2014-07-23 11:07:39 UTC
Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
Winthorp
#26 - 2014-07-23 11:12:56 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.


See he isn't just talking about research costs though like i asked you in another thread.

Is it working as intended that an freighter in any region regardless of its scaling should cost 500m ISK to make 1x freighter?
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
#27 - 2014-07-23 11:13:30 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.


Thankyou, kind sir!

I was hoping that there was an error in the calculations.

Back to business.....!
Takanuro
Eve Faction Trade Exchange
#28 - 2014-07-23 11:17:28 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.


Amen for that.

I personally didn't start any jobs as costs were crazy, but I'm wondering if there will be reimbursement for those unfortunate souls that 'trusted' the expansion as being correct and stumped up crazy isk to get researching?

Yes, we're going to die, but you're coming with us!
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
#29 - 2014-07-23 11:18:06 UTC
Winthorp wrote:


See he isn't just talking about research costs though like i asked you in another thread.

Is it working as intended that an freighter in any region regardless of its scaling should cost 500m ISK to make 1x freighter?



Actually, the cost was 1.8bn for the 1 run installation cost. It was 3.5 bn for TE 0 to 20% on the same obelisk BPO.


So research installation cost calcs are buggy. I presume that manufacturing calcs are also buggy?
Takanuro
Eve Faction Trade Exchange
#30 - 2014-07-23 11:39:00 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.


So, it is definitely as you want it now?

Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees?

Yes, we're going to die, but you're coming with us!
Lysaeus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2014-07-23 11:39:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Lysaeus
The research job costs for capital ship BPOs are enormous even with this change today. Was 4.3 billion for a moros BPO to 10 (not that anyone should go that far anyway) really intended? What's worse is that we've gone from being able to do this for free at our own poses to now having to pay through the nose in addition to all the added costs of putting up our own infrastructure.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#32 - 2014-07-23 11:59:24 UTC
Funny, it's a great time to be a t2 mod inventer. Invention costs are below what i was originally paying at my pos.

I get 300 times the use out of bpcs now, so my stock pile of 300+ per mod do to my cycle method means i don't have to stress about copying anytime soon.

My build times on general dropped by a factor of 4, my invention times increased, but are still able to be cycled 3 times a day (before work, after, and before bed). And build costs for 100 mods is negligible.

Materials are now easier as i don't have to worry about minerals save for morphite except when making the t1 parts.

And the UI makes running jobs easier.

Loving the patch myself.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#33 - 2014-07-23 12:09:55 UTC
Takanuro wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.


So, it is definitely as you want it now?

Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees?


It looks like it's working by design now, yes. Researching big expensive blueprints to high levels can cost a large amount of money now - it's up to you to decide if the investment is worth it. You may find that shopping around further afield will result in cheaper prices.

If anyone is still seeing a 500m installation cost to build 1 freighter, please let me know, that sounds out of whack.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-07-23 12:17:46 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Takanuro wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.


So, it is definitely as you want it now?

Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees?


It looks like it's working by design now, yes. Researching big expensive blueprints to high levels can cost a large amount of money now - it's up to you to decide if the investment is worth it. You may find that shopping around further afield will result in cheaper prices.

If anyone is still seeing a 500m installation cost to build 1 freighter, please let me know, that sounds out of whack.
I assume OP was referring to total installation costs (including all components) being 1.8 Bil?

I'm playing around with it the info UI at the moment (even though I cannot build capitals myself), and I'm getting figures ranging from as low as 1 Mil in certain FW lowsec systems to 100 Mil in Sobaseki (1j from Jita), just for the final assembly of an Obelisk in an NPC station.

OP, have you noticed how much it would cost you in other systems? Including lowsec, which seems incredibly cheap atm.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Scaugh
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-07-23 12:50:34 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Takanuro wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.


So, it is definitely as you want it now?

Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees?


It looks like it's working by design now, yes. Researching big expensive blueprints to high levels can cost a large amount of money now - it's up to you to decide if the investment is worth it. You may find that shopping around further afield will result in cheaper prices.

If anyone is still seeing a 500m installation cost to build 1 freighter, please let me know, that sounds out of whack.


I'm not seeing 500m installation cost for a freighter but I am seeing a 209,465,721 isk installation cost for a phobos in Jel (highsec). Come on now a 209m fee to start a single T2 cruiser build.

Way way way out of whack.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-07-23 12:51:43 UTC
Scaugh wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Takanuro wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.


So, it is definitely as you want it now?

Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees?


It looks like it's working by design now, yes. Researching big expensive blueprints to high levels can cost a large amount of money now - it's up to you to decide if the investment is worth it. You may find that shopping around further afield will result in cheaper prices.

If anyone is still seeing a 500m installation cost to build 1 freighter, please let me know, that sounds out of whack.


I'm not seeing 500m installation cost for a freighter but I am seeing a 209,465,721 isk installation cost for a phobos in Jel (highsec). Come on now a 209m fee to start a single T2 cruiser build.

Way way way out of whack.


Out of curiosity, what's the lowest cost you can get in a lowsec NPC station you can 'see' on your UI?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Steijn
Quay Industries
#37 - 2014-07-23 12:58:59 UTC
Scaugh wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Takanuro wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.


So, it is definitely as you want it now?

Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees?


It looks like it's working by design now, yes. Researching big expensive blueprints to high levels can cost a large amount of money now - it's up to you to decide if the investment is worth it. You may find that shopping around further afield will result in cheaper prices.

If anyone is still seeing a 500m installation cost to build 1 freighter, please let me know, that sounds out of whack.


I'm not seeing 500m installation cost for a freighter but I am seeing a 209,465,721 isk installation cost for a phobos in Jel (highsec). Come on now a 209m fee to start a single T2 cruiser build.

Way way way out of whack.




yesterday i went thru prices on the T2 BPCs that i currently have in Essence, highest manufacturing cost i found was under 10m. These included hulk, mackinaw, curse, bombers, intys etc. so think you are doing something wrong somewhere to get 200m+
Scaugh
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2014-07-23 13:01:17 UTC
Steijn wrote:
Scaugh wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Takanuro wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.


So, it is definitely as you want it now?

Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees?


It looks like it's working by design now, yes. Researching big expensive blueprints to high levels can cost a large amount of money now - it's up to you to decide if the investment is worth it. You may find that shopping around further afield will result in cheaper prices.

If anyone is still seeing a 500m installation cost to build 1 freighter, please let me know, that sounds out of whack.


I'm not seeing 500m installation cost for a freighter but I am seeing a 209,465,721 isk installation cost for a phobos in Jel (highsec). Come on now a 209m fee to start a single T2 cruiser build.

Way way way out of whack.




yesterday i went thru prices on the T2 BPCs that i currently have in Essence, highest manufacturing cost i found was under 10m. These included hulk, mackinaw, curse, bombers, intys etc. so think you are doing something wrong somewhere to get 200m+


I'm not m8. the BPC is for 10 runs and the 10 runs totals 2,094,657,210
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#39 - 2014-07-23 13:08:46 UTC
We are seeing excessively high costs which I believe are linked to previewing a job in a location that's not actually valid. If you're seeing very high costs, can you confirm whether or not they are set up such that you could actually start them if you wanted to and had the materials?
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#40 - 2014-07-23 13:29:40 UTC
Seems to confirm on TQ, if you try to preview manufacturing cost in a facility without a manufacturing capability, the cost is "wrong" (ie gigantic). This is essentially a UI issue, working on a fix for this.