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Cost scaling - a TOTAL disaster for Science and Industry

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Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
#1 - 2014-07-23 06:32:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Clara Tironis
Crius.

I was looking forward to seeing how things went. New opportunities and a fresh way of doing things.

EPIC FAIL!!!!,

Reason: it will now cost ~ 0.5B ISK more in installation fees to produce an Obelisk in my home system (dead end hi-sec, 14 or so jumps from Jita, 5 from Dodixie, no NPC industry facilities, just me and my 2 other accounts and a POS) than I'll get from selling it on the market. So, time mining vs mineral buy costs + loss from grossly excessive installation fees. I can't see how hiring a team to defray the extra cost will even spit in the ocean . Plus no stacking bonus on POSdules.

Way to kill off Science and Industry in a single stroke CCP! Good job (but I won't be starting any more)

That's 3 accounts from a previously loyal customer that you have jeopardised. I get the feeling that many others will be thinking very seriously about unsubbing too if this isn't fixed to something that is more reasonable.

Is this why the economics Prof. resigned in such a hurry? Could he see the impending crash of the production side of the EvE economy coming?
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#2 - 2014-07-23 06:43:13 UTC
The sky isnt falling yet, a new balance has to be found before prices can be taken seriously.
Old stockpiles might have to run out before the new reality hits home.
D4mane
Wazan Tme Inc.
Corelum Syndicate
#3 - 2014-07-23 06:43:38 UTC
And this is just the begining.

Good luck moving at 50% more isotopes consuption. Good luck adding another spreadsheet with "moving logistics" to your repertoire. This game is 95% logistics, 4% looking for a fight, 1% the actual fight. Lets get to the next level CCP.

Nevermind everything getting more expensive to build.

In some cases:
Small t2 Rigs, the waste that could be eliminated previously is no more thus resulting in a 100% increase of the required t2 salvage. GG
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#4 - 2014-07-23 06:46:48 UTC
On the other hand it wanted less, then 100 ISK from me to produce banch of small ammo on a station industrial facility. I believe it was like 333 ISK pre-patch. So expensive stuff will become even more expensive , cheap - even more cheap, IMHO.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
#5 - 2014-07-23 06:50:51 UTC
Well that's ok then. I'll be able to afford the ammo for my Velator.
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
#6 - 2014-07-23 07:30:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Clara Tironis
So, does anyone want to buy an Obelisk from me for 3.5 billion ISK?

1.2 bn mineral cost (including increased capital construction components post Crius - previously maxed ME BPO - now 1 extra capital cargo bay and 1 extra something else) + 1.8bn job installation cost + POS fuel + sales cost + a modest profit (hardly worth my while).

Oh, and now I'll need the ISK up front from customers, sorry!

Lead time: 4 to 6 weeks. ( the minerals don't just appear from nowhere at downtime, you know!).
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-07-23 07:49:46 UTC
am i the only one who is re-writing his training plans and mining alts into industry/research?
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#8 - 2014-07-23 07:54:15 UTC
I am a little concerned on costs too. Whilst not as excessive as your 0.5b, I found 27m and 66 days to research a destroyer BPOs TE to 20%.

I am wondering if in the example of your Obelisk (and indeed everything else out there with a stupid fee attached to it) that the prices will gravitate upwards once current stock levels are depleted.

Essentially though if CCP don't revisit it or fix it and people leave then ultimately they will kill off their own game.
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
#9 - 2014-07-23 07:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Clara Tironis
The 0.5 billion was the loss purely on the job installation cost vs sales price. The install quote I got was 1.8bn!!!!!
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
#10 - 2014-07-23 08:02:31 UTC
I'm also getting a quote for 3.5 billion to research the Obelisk BPO to TE 20. In just under 300 days as I recall.
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
#11 - 2014-07-23 08:03:23 UTC
So you can add that to the lead time. What?
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
#12 - 2014-07-23 08:24:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Clara Tironis
Rowells wrote:
am i the only one who is re-writing his training plans and mining alts into industry/research?


I'm thinking of sending my industry/mining main to go and learn PvP. (And lapse the rest of my alts).

Velators at dawn anyone?

Won't be able to afford to manufacture anything more expensive now.

Free ship when you get blown up? Well that's ok then.

If someone wants to replace my Kronos anytime I get ganked then I'll be fine with that too. Just don't ask me to produce from my T2 BPCs without cash up front!
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
#13 - 2014-07-23 08:43:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Clara Tironis
Build it and they will come?

Seriously?

Build it and go bust, more like.

Or say your going to build it and they come and blow up your POS with your shiny 6 billion BPO in it before the job is completed.

Hmmmmm.

Velators at dawn anyone?

I think I'll name my next (everything but science and industry) corp that.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#14 - 2014-07-23 08:57:30 UTC
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
#15 - 2014-07-23 09:08:09 UTC
Thanks for pointing this out but something buried in the Issues thread is not the big news at the moment. It's shock. Disbelief. Demoralisation. Dismay.

And recriminations.
Amseln deBrabant
Ochsenbruegger
#16 - 2014-07-23 09:30:47 UTC
Clara Tironis wrote:
Thanks for pointing this out but something buried in the Issues thread is not the big news at the moment. It's shock. Disbelief. Demoralisation. Dismay.

And recriminations.
adapt or die, welcome to eve, and can i have your stuff, plz?
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
#17 - 2014-07-23 09:35:27 UTC
You can have a freighter for 10bn in 6 to 8 weeks if you pay up front.
Ixidor Zorander
Coffee Club of Cautelous Chaps
#18 - 2014-07-23 09:36:56 UTC
Clara Tironis wrote:
Thanks for pointing this out but something buried in the Issues thread is not the big news at the moment. It's shock. Disbelief. Demoralisation. Dismay.

And recriminations.


sounds like my morning when I noticed upping a chimera bpo to ME 10 was 140b
staring at the monitor doing double takes almost expecting the price to change, getting up for coffee sitting back down and stareing, counting the commas (hundreds, thousands, millions, billions) deciding wow, ccp must be calculating this with three decimal places, soo 140 MILLION. moveing my isk into corp wallet to find I dont have enough to do the job... because its ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY BILLLLLLIIIOOOOON...... ridiculous....
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-07-23 09:50:49 UTC
Clara Tironis wrote:
I'm also getting a quote for 3.5 billion to research the Obelisk BPO to TE 20. In just under 300 days as I recall.


Why on earth didn't you raise your bpo's to me 10, and te 10 before the patch hit?

I'm a relative beginner to industry but I cancelled blueprints that were cooking to 300 me/te when I realised I only needed 10 me/te and saved a lot of queue time. Now i'm sitting with a bunch of them all at -10%, -20%.

Everyone has known about this for months now.

Yesterday I put some T2 ammo to manufacture, at a cost of 317 isk in a npc station :-)

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
#20 - 2014-07-23 10:00:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Clara Tironis
I was in the middle of getting ME to 16 (perfect) went the patch was announced and needed the freighter BPO to run some jobs. No way I could have started TE or got it more than PE 1 before the patch on that one. Nearly all my other (100s) BPOs are now ME 10 % TE 20%, thankfully. Just about 20 rig BPOs to get to ME 10% from 0, for an insane amount of installation cost (and time ) post Crius, of course.

And I've shelved any plans to get into other racial T1 ship BPOs until this has all sorted itself out. That's if I'm still interested in industry if the costs are not fixed to a reasonable level. I'm absolutely sure that it was not intended that installation costs for a freighter manufacturing or research job in a 0.01 cost scaling factor system should be more than 100% of the mineral (i.e. Input cost) . At least, that wasn't my reading of the Dev Blogs and forum post prior to the evil patch.
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