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Direct X 11 & EvE
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Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#41 - 2011-12-02 01:50:31 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
Denidil wrote:
because it would require them to reimplement their entire rendering pipeline, and shut out anyone who hasn't upgraded from XP yet (hey, i'm fine with that. you're using a ******* 8 year old OS).



Please, I hope to god you're trolling.
is there anybody on the forums that has even the smallest understanding of direct x runtimes?

It's simple, opt in.. Or don't..
No separate clients, no forcing people out. Plain and simple option in video settings.


then they're writing TWO rendering pipelines.

i've written rendering engines before, stfu ignorant ****.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2011-12-02 01:54:17 UTC  |  Edited by: DarkAegix
Epic Commander wrote:
**** DirextX go OpenGL and OpenGL ES
Mac, Linux, Android.

I see that the 3 platforms you have listed are the absolute kings of gaming, known for their high quantity of AAA games with extremely high graphical fidelity.
Ahahhahahahaha.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!

No.
Go away, hipster, back to your OSX Furry Animal #6156 which is slowly looking more and more like an iPad's operating system (I use the term 'operating system' loosely)
Alternatively, you're in love with Linux, in which case you should enjoy all your awesome features like undervolting network cards while crying about lacklustre support for anything.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#43 - 2011-12-02 02:05:03 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Epic Commander wrote:
**** DirextX go OpenGL and OpenGL ES
Mac, Linux, Android.

I see that the 3 platforms you have listed are the absolute kings of gaming, known for their high quantity of AAA games with extremely high graphical fidelity.
Ahahhahahahaha.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!

No.
Go away, hipster, back to your OSX Furry Animal #6156 which is slowly looking more and more like an iPad's operating system (I use the term 'operating system' loosely)
Alternatively, you're in love with Linux, in which case you should enjoy all your awesome features like undervolting network cards while crying about lacklustre support for anything.


stfu about operating systems. you don't know what you're talking about. Windows, OS/X, Linux, iOS, Android, Windows Phone, etc all have their strengths and weaknesses.

though... i have to agree that OpenGL is no longer up to it's old quality. OpenGL used to be the API that lead the way in features, usually before they were available in silicon for acceleration. DX10 took over kingship from OpenGL because DX successfully reinvented itself for new coding patterns and OpenGL's attempt to do the same was bogged down by what had been it's former strength: design by a committee of experts. they let the perfect become the enemy of the good, and achieved nothing.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Xenuria
#44 - 2011-12-02 21:29:09 UTC
Denidil wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
Epic Commander wrote:
**** DirextX go OpenGL and OpenGL ES
Mac, Linux, Android.

I see that the 3 platforms you have listed are the absolute kings of gaming, known for their high quantity of AAA games with extremely high graphical fidelity.
Ahahhahahahaha.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!

No.
Go away, hipster, back to your OSX Furry Animal #6156 which is slowly looking more and more like an iPad's operating system (I use the term 'operating system' loosely)
Alternatively, you're in love with Linux, in which case you should enjoy all your awesome features like undervolting network cards while crying about lacklustre support for anything.


stfu about operating systems. you don't know what you're talking about. Windows, OS/X, Linux, iOS, Android, Windows Phone, etc all have their strengths and weaknesses.

though... i have to agree that OpenGL is no longer up to it's old quality. OpenGL used to be the API that lead the way in features, usually before they were available in silicon for acceleration. DX10 took over kingship from OpenGL because DX successfully reinvented itself for new coding patterns and OpenGL's attempt to do the same was bogged down by what had been it's former strength: design by a committee of experts. they let the perfect become the enemy of the good, and achieved nothing.


Could you please at least make an attempt at coherence when you post in my thread?

CSM 12 Candidate
Alexandros Balfros
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#45 - 2011-12-02 21:33:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
Messoroz wrote:
Because those with directx10 and 9 video cards i.e. most of eve players won't be able to run it? CCP could in theory make their engine have multiple rendering subsystems but that's more maintenance work later on for them to deal with.
Thats not how Direct x 11 works bro.

IT would be an option in the settings to enable certain features.
…which wouldn't change the fact that they'd have to create multiple rendering paths which would increase the maintenance needed, not to mention having to duplicate a lot of the art assets. Until most of EVE can actually make use of any advantages yielded by such a change (and then the question is, what would those advantages be?) it's just wasted effort.

There's a reason they killed off the classic client: it was to avoid doing exactly that.



DICE managed it with battlefield bad company 2 as that supports 9, 10 and 11 iirc via a .ini change, BF3 no doubt does the same and trust me the performance gains are very much worth it, just try BC2 in DX9 vs DX11 and you'll see a massive difference performance wise :)
Ai Shun
#46 - 2011-12-02 21:46:25 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
If they do this then it's one extra thing that CCP can brag about eve for.


I hear what you are saying, but I'd prefer it if they focus on content. That has more value to me.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#47 - 2011-12-02 21:47:06 UTC
Alexandros Balfros wrote:
DICE managed it with battlefield bad company 2 as that supports 9, 10 and 11 iirc via a .ini change,
…which selects the different render paths, each of which has to be maintained and given the right content in order to take advantage of any… well… advantages. The issue remains the same: they do not want to maintain multiple render paths and/or duplicate art assets to fit those different paths.
Xenuria
#48 - 2011-12-02 21:49:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Alexandros Balfros wrote:
DICE managed it with battlefield bad company 2 as that supports 9, 10 and 11 iirc via a .ini change,
…which selects the different render paths, each of which has to be maintained and given the right content in order to take advantage of any… well… advantages. The issue remains the same: they do not want to maintain multiple render paths and/or duplicate art assets to fit those different paths.


Facepalm...

CSM 12 Candidate
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#49 - 2011-12-02 22:06:55 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
Denidil wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
Epic Commander wrote:
**** DirextX go OpenGL and OpenGL ES
Mac, Linux, Android.

I see that the 3 platforms you have listed are the absolute kings of gaming, known for their high quantity of AAA games with extremely high graphical fidelity.
Ahahhahahahaha.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!

No.
Go away, hipster, back to your OSX Furry Animal #6156 which is slowly looking more and more like an iPad's operating system (I use the term 'operating system' loosely)
Alternatively, you're in love with Linux, in which case you should enjoy all your awesome features like undervolting network cards while crying about lacklustre support for anything.


stfu about operating systems. you don't know what you're talking about. Windows, OS/X, Linux, iOS, Android, Windows Phone, etc all have their strengths and weaknesses.

though... i have to agree that OpenGL is no longer up to it's old quality. OpenGL used to be the API that lead the way in features, usually before they were available in silicon for acceleration. DX10 took over kingship from OpenGL because DX successfully reinvented itself for new coding patterns and OpenGL's attempt to do the same was bogged down by what had been it's former strength: design by a committee of experts. they let the perfect become the enemy of the good, and achieved nothing.


Could you please at least make an attempt at coherence when you post in my thread?


my post is perfectly coherent to someone conversant in systems and graphics programming.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Dante KamiyaX
STARK INDUSTRIES.INCX
#50 - 2011-12-02 22:51:00 UTC
Karadion wrote:
Why don't we go ahead and support DX11.1 already!? WHY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ARE WE NOT SUPPORTING IT? You need things shinier in the game? Is that why you want CCP to re-write their engine to depend on DirectX11 ? You obviously don't think, do you?


It would take years to convert all the DX9 programing eve is based off of and make it DX11 which is a radically different way of programing.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2011-12-02 22:52:35 UTC
Dante KamiyaX wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Why don't we go ahead and support DX11.1 already!? WHY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ARE WE NOT SUPPORTING IT? You need things shinier in the game? Is that why you want CCP to re-write their engine to depend on DirectX11 ? You obviously don't think, do you?


It would take years to convert all the DX9 programing eve is based off of and make it DX11 which is a radically different way of programing.


not to mention it wont actually make things shinier. Big smile
Xenuria
#52 - 2011-12-07 18:29:33 UTC
We want direct x 11!

CSM 12 Candidate
Feilamya
#53 - 2011-12-07 19:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Feilamya
Xenuria wrote:
Why does eve still not make use of direct x 11?

Because too many idiots are still running Windows XP. This, besides DX9 legacy code, is the ONLY technical reason not to use DirectX 11. DX11 scales down to all levels of graphics hardware that people playing Eve are using today.

Besides, it's just an API. It won't make the game look more awesome. It has some multi-threading capabilities which are worthless in an Excel-in-space, where synchronous I/O and the Python GIL block the entire client every couple of seconds.
Emiko P'eng
#54 - 2011-12-07 20:54:56 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
I only want direct x 11 for the optimization issues. Sure I would love tessellation. But really the main reason direct x 11 would be good is because people with those cards would see a sharp boost in performance.

Um! Sharp Boost in performance??????

I am using AMD64 4600+ dual core, XP 32bit, 2Gb Ram, 17in Monitor at 1920 x 1024

I am running EVE at all max graphic settings! with a FPS of 65 to 72 according to ATI Tray!

EVE, according to task manager running in the background, is taking 23% of my CPU time, along with the torrent that Opera was downloading in the background!

I now have EVE in the background while I type this and download some mail!

While I have been typing the torrent that Opera was downloading for the last 39 minutes has completed!

So what sharp boost do you require????

Ah! I almost forgot! You need to overcome all the bad programming, CPU sapping Vista or the over stuffed (But better than Vista) Windows 7

Not my fault you bought an Overstuffed slow running OS!
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#55 - 2011-12-07 21:04:18 UTC
I wish EvE took advantage of advanced technologies, such as real multiprocessor support, better sound hardware management (i.e. better surround and mixing), more efficient repackaging, better memory management.

Devs need to perfect and simplify the client. Like Japanese do with their steel. Eve could benefit from efficiency optimization. More efficient interface is just one of the priorities.

Game engine needs improvements, it feels so 2004. Someone hire external studios for Space physics Candy. Ships move and fire like Trains and Thrown Spears. No area of effect weapons! No space dust? No micro particles.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#56 - 2011-12-07 21:08:05 UTC
Eve is slowly pusing shader models off the cliff remember when they shoved shader model 1 and 2 off the cliff, in a few years when the number of users usin dx9 and sm3 reaches that critical 1% then theyll drop that too.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Lek Arthie
Doomheim
#57 - 2011-12-07 21:16:56 UTC
Your new gpu has no use, too bad. LolLolLolLolLolLol
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#58 - 2011-12-07 21:27:24 UTC
Zakuak wrote:
DX9, 10 or 11 I dont care realy. I just want it to sparkle and look wicked cool.

So basicaly you guys are saying...they coulda made BF3 look as cool as it does with DX9? That all the DX11 stuff is just peripheral poodoo?

I will say the direct and ambient update along with the shadows have made the game not look so flat as it did prior to patch, I likes it!!!!


I first want to correct an earlier post: WoW does have some DirectX 11 features, but only on the experimental side -- oceans and lakes get reflections and react differently to players, some spell effects are a bit brighter, and other things of that nature.

DX9 lacks some of the 'advanced' features and newer optimizations of DX11. BF3 on DX9 would really be a step down in terms of overall visual quality. The main reason that DirectX 11 isn't being used more widely is that it's hardware-dependent for a lot of its functionality, and the hardware hasn't yet advanced to the point where DX11 is doing anything that DX9 or DX10 can't already do.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Herio Mortis
GhettoModders
#59 - 2011-12-07 23:07:10 UTC
OP lacks fundamental knowledge about programming and thinks you just flip a setting in the compiler and bob's your uncle, free pink flying unicorns for everyone!

Sorry, D3D 10 changed the entire API, with good reason. It would mean writing a full new rendering pipeline which isn't simple work.

Also, denidils post about how OpenGL lost was absolutely coherent and spot on.
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