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SKILLPOINTS SHOULD NEVER BE LOST
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Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#21 - 2014-07-23 00:59:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Bohneik Itohn
Death Ryder wrote:

So i'm guessing you live alone or have beaten the kids hard enough that they never go in and look at your game, so there's no way you'd ever lose a clone without knowing..


Well damn... From SP loss and internet spaceships to violent child abuse... That got dark quick... Thanks OP.

No. I don't have to worry about the kids playing on my PC for other, non-horrifying reasons. If I did, I just wouldn't leave my account logged in or set up a macro as suggested. Having a cat that likes to flop and roll all over my keyboard when I'm out of the room was enough to make me set up a macro a couple years ago.

Honest mistake that could have easily been prevented. That's what we all learn from right? It's a shame this mistake came with such a sharp lesson though. But it's not the end of the world and doesn't require changing game mechanics.

Try to remember that some players willingly accept the risk and penalty of SP loss just to fly their shiny T3's. It's nothing serious.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

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Death Ryder
Vagrant Elite
#22 - 2014-07-23 01:08:05 UTC
there are warnings to protect your ships from flying into low sec, there are warnings to let you know if your sec rating is too low in what ever area, there are warnings all over eve to protect assets and stuff, so what's wrong with having a warning system in place for what can only be considered as THE most important resource in the game, and might I add also the only resource that can not be replaced in any way from outside of the game..
Death Ryder
Vagrant Elite
#23 - 2014-07-23 01:13:56 UTC
What's more important, having warnings in place to protect you from Accidentally losing your shiny ship, or having something in place to protect your ability to FLY your shiny ship
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#24 - 2014-07-23 01:32:20 UTC
Death Ryder wrote:
What's more important, having warnings in place to protect you from Accidentally losing your shiny ship, or having something in place to protect your ability to FLY your shiny ship


I'd say both are unnecessary, and there is no reason to add more of an unnecessary thing.

But here's the crux. Your situation is unusual, and is the exception to the rule. Typically for someone to lose SP they don't have to accidentally mis-click one time like you would just to jump into the wrong system. For someone to repeat this scenario without outside interference they would have to leave whatever safe situation they were afking in, lose a pod, or both a ship and pod, and then deliberately not upgrade their clone. That is a chain of events which require player knowledge of what is happening, not a mis-click or a bad route in the autopilot settings.

Suck it up and chalk this one up to bad luck.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#25 - 2014-07-23 01:33:00 UTC
Death Ryder wrote:
What's more important, having warnings in place to protect you from Accidentally losing your shiny ship, or having something in place to protect your ability to FLY your shiny ship

Neither. You should plan accordingly and/or accept that sometimes stuff beyond your control happens. A warning will not solve a lapse in judgement, forgetfulness, or kids fiddling with your computer.

For me personally... I have lost battleship 5 once because I forgot to update my clone. I shrugged it off, trained for 15 days to get it back, and never forgot to update my clone after that. As intended by the system.

Oh... and I "lock" my computer before stepping away from it when kids are around (my cousins are too curious for their own good).

How did you Veterans start?
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
#26 - 2014-07-23 01:40:52 UTC
Or you can overspend on clones so you don't cut it so close next time. Buy the one above the one you think you need. Then plan to die before you go over clone max.

Is that my two cents or yours?
Death Ryder
Vagrant Elite
#27 - 2014-07-23 02:04:54 UTC
Its kind of amazing, if I was trying to get the developers to make it so you could light you bum on fire and stick it out a airlock in jita, you lot would be all in favour of it and probably telling the everyone I should be a world leader, but I pipe up and try and do something that makes sense and helps to protect the most important asset in the game, all you can do is tell me I'm crazy and should suck it up and stop whining and let everyone else do the same..
So you lost level 5 in something, and you sucked it up and you retrained your skill, OK so tell me you didn't feel sick to the pit of your stomach when you did lose it, now tell me you didn't ask your self why there's no safety to protect your skills...

OH goody, now tell us all honestly that you didn't...

So what's the point in objecting to something that will prevent that overwhelming feeling of disgust to other people? What's wrong with doing something simple that helps other people.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#28 - 2014-07-23 02:21:16 UTC
Devs have already said in the clone cost discussions that they don't feel the SP clone is the best isk sink related to clones anyway. It's just a question of them settling on a 99% acceptable replacement system for it as it stands and having the time to implement that.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#29 - 2014-07-23 02:31:54 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Death Ryder wrote:
So you lost level 5 in something, and you sucked it up and you retrained your skill, OK so tell me you didn't feel sick to the pit of your stomach when you did lose it,

Oh... I did. But I consider that as a part of the game.

In my eyes, it is no different from losing a billion ISK ship or implant set due to drunken/idiotic zeal (of which I am sometimes guilty of). Feeling bad because you did or had something stupid happen is a part of what makes EVE, EVE. It is what makes you truly VALUE what you have and play smarter.

Death Ryder wrote:
now tell me you didn't ask your self why there's no safety to protect your skills...

That is because there already is one. It's called a clone. You just forgot to update it.

Death Ryder wrote:
So what's the point in objecting to something that will prevent that overwhelming feeling of disgust to other people? What's wrong with doing something simple that helps other people.

*lights a match*
Because only the people who can stand the fire are worthy enough to fight me.
*drops match in petrol soaked ground*
*cackles*

How did you Veterans start?
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-07-23 03:08:57 UTC
Death Ryder wrote:
I lost 1.3m sp between 2 characters that I thought were up to date in there clones. turns out they weren't. Point isn't that I lost them or overlooked the clones, point is that AFTER overlooking them, they stayed overlooked because something so important doesn't have any warnings associated with it that are easily noticed..


1.3m sp between 2 toons. Kickass dude. You're definitely winning at being a lazy player.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-07-23 03:31:04 UTC
Death Ryder wrote:
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Meh.

Just out of curiosity how much did you lose?

I mean it's kind of hard for me to sympathize since I don't lose that many med clones, and when I do my first reaction is to buy a new one before I even check my own losses... I thought spending those few seconds zoomed in on your broken capsule had that effect on everybody.


So i'm guessing you live alone or have beaten the kids hard enough that they never go in and look at your game, so there's no way you'd ever lose a clone without knowing..


Renter loses SP then blindly accuses someone of beating their children. Classy.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-07-23 03:32:31 UTC
Death Ryder wrote:
Its kind of amazing, if I was trying to get the developers to make it so you could light you bum on fire and stick it out a airlock in jita, you lot would be all in favour of it and probably telling the everyone I should be a world leader, but I pipe up and try and do something that makes sense and helps to protect the most important asset in the game, all you can do is tell me I'm crazy and should suck it up and stop whining and let everyone else do the same..
So you lost level 5 in something, and you sucked it up and you retrained your skill, OK so tell me you didn't feel sick to the pit of your stomach when you did lose it, now tell me you didn't ask your self why there's no safety to protect your skills...

OH goody, now tell us all honestly that you didn't...

So what's the point in objecting to something that will prevent that overwhelming feeling of disgust to other people? What's wrong with doing something simple that helps other people.


I've been looking forward to the next meltdown on the EVE forums. Please continue.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#33 - 2014-07-23 03:48:38 UTC
Death Ryder wrote:
Its kind of amazing, if I was trying to get the developers to make it so you could light you bum on fire and stick it out a airlock in jita, you lot would be all in favour of it and probably telling the everyone I should be a world leader, but I pipe up and try and do something that makes sense and helps to protect the most important asset in the game, all you can do is tell me I'm crazy and should suck it up and stop whining and let everyone else do the same..
So you lost level 5 in something, and you sucked it up and you retrained your skill, OK so tell me you didn't feel sick to the pit of your stomach when you did lose it, now tell me you didn't ask your self why there's no safety to protect your skills...

OH goody, now tell us all honestly that you didn't...

So what's the point in objecting to something that will prevent that overwhelming feeling of disgust to other people? What's wrong with doing something simple that helps other people.


It's not the crab-in-a-barrel syndrome, it's just the simple idea that if you remove essentially all of the risk of managing your medical clone, which is a pretty simple process, what else has to change?

You died and lost sp? Alright. Before MMO's turned into a bunch of CandyLand simulators it was par for the course for MMO's to have unavoidable Experience loss and even Permadeath. Eve came along and changed that by essentially allowing you to pay a small fee to insure that doesn't happen. If you wanted Experience and money in one of those MMO's, you had to spend time in the game grinding both. Eve decided to be pretty lax on that too, and allowed you to gain both SP and isk without being logged into the game (albeit the isk part is a "recent" development).

Eve, for all it's harshness, still remains quite amenable and full of creature comforts that we exploit every day without a second thought. If you make it next to impossible to screw up medical clones CCP will, reasonably, want to remove something else we take for granted, l.E. offline skill training.

Have a good evening.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#34 - 2014-07-23 04:01:11 UTC
Death Ryder wrote:
I lost 1.3m sp between 2 characters that I thought were up to date in there clones. turns out they weren't. Point isn't that I lost them or overlooked the clones, point is that AFTER overlooking them, they stayed overlooked because something so important doesn't have any warnings associated with it that are easily noticed..


Isn't that your fault for being forgetful then?

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8 EyedSpy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-07-23 05:19:20 UTC
Death Ryder wrote:

So i'm guessing you live alone or have beaten the kids hard enough that they never go in and look at your game, so there's no way you'd ever lose a clone without knowing..


I doubt most kids would be able to undock and warp to a gate without at least doing the tutorial. Kid friendly is not how i would describe eve's interface.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#36 - 2014-07-23 05:33:20 UTC
If killboards showed SP destroyed...

Oh god.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#37 - 2014-07-23 07:10:25 UTC
I cannot agree with the OP.

Last time I was podded I saw the new death animation for the first time and woke up in Amarr and got two disturbing messages at the same time the station interior finished loading.

Amost the shiny Amarr halls of faith and worship there is that gigantic medical thingy that blinks in a way you cannot miss it stating that your in my case my clone was insufficient, please upgrade your clone again (Cry oh noes 45.5 million..).

In addition to that, the second you get podded you are out of your egg, staring at and empty place where your boat or pod used to be, which is a hint that is very hard to miss.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#38 - 2014-07-23 07:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessica Danikov
I lost Logi V and almost killed a cap chain because I hadn't realized I lost it, once. The main contributor to not remembering to update my clone was rage-quitting the client over the previous podloss (was pretty pissed with the anchor who caused the loss).

However you lose SP, you live, you learn (and you swallow the lost SP as a hard lesson- CCP won't give it back).

CCP have done a little better with the death screen highlighting that your clone needs to be updated, but there really should be a togglable option to remind you on login or undock if you've neglected to do so (and not the login screen- I barely look at it except to click the right portrait). I understand that skill points are part of a risk/reward loop, but while risking ISK in chosing a level of clone or implants or flying a T3 is mildly interesting, risking SP by poor visibility of your current clone level is just punitive only to simple crimes of forgetfulness.

As for EVEMon, I have a bunch of characters that don't need their clones updating so I categorically filtered out the insufficient clone notifications and missed that my main had joined the throng- my bad, I guess.

Of course these discussions naturally attract people who, whether they've lost SP in the past or not, are far more interested in making fun of those who admit to doing so- welkome to the forums, HTFU, etc.
Thorr VonAsgard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-07-23 07:43:27 UTC
Use EVEmon, be adverted that your clones are not up to date.
Make them up to date.

Problem resolved....

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Saleika Issikainen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-07-23 07:54:08 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
EVEMon already nags you incessantly if the clone for one of your toons is out of date. And honestly, who doesn't use EVEMon already anyway? If you aren't for some reason, start.


I like how people don't see an issue with a game so badly done that external utilities are an outright necessity.