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Crime & Punishment

 
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Zach Lemmont
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-07-22 20:23:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Zach Lemmont
Thank you all for not understanding what constructive feedback means :) very productive forums we have here!
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#2 - 2014-07-22 20:29:15 UTC
Zach Lemmont wrote:
but the part that bothers me is the lack on punishment players are able to put on said space pirates.


This is where you go wrong. it should read "but the part that bothers me is the lack on punishment players are willing to put on said space pirates".

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Zach Lemmont
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-07-22 20:42:29 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Zach Lemmont wrote:
but the part that bothers me is the lack on punishment players are able to put on said space pirates.


This is where you go wrong. it should read "but the part that bothers me is the lack on punishment players are willing to put on said space pirates".


I guess what i'm looking for is an incentive really. Other than revenge and a horrible bounty system we really don't have much reason to try and pursue a trained PvP character lol.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-07-22 20:48:15 UTC
It depends very much on your definition of what a "criminal" would be. If your definition is anyone who is red-flashy (-5 or under), they can be engaged freely, by anyone, anywhere in the game.

If you are referring to tag-repping gankers, you could always return the favor.

If you are scammed, you need to try to outwit the person to return the favor.

Root is correct, enforcement needs to be done by the players, not by CCP, and its all about how far YOU are willing to go to police the game yourself.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Zach Lemmont
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-07-22 20:52:21 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
It depends very much on your definition of what a "criminal" would be. If your definition is anyone who is red-flashy (-5 or under), they can be engaged freely, by anyone, anywhere in the game.

If you are referring to tag-repping gankers, you could always return the favor.

If you are scammed, you need to try to outwit the person to return the favor.

Root is correct, enforcement needs to be done by the players, not by CCP, and its all about how far YOU are willing to go to police the game yourself.


All a player has to gain is a kill really, more than likely on a cheap ship with little to no value. Let's say I'm the ganker now, basically all of my targets are going to be juicy sweet isk targets. A ganker has incentive and almost nothing to lose. A person who chooses to retaliate, generally has very little to gain other than a short-lived feel good revenge. How BORING is that!
Zach Lemmont
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-07-22 20:54:39 UTC
Perhaps giving the player more incentive to use their kill-right set to personal, would lead to a larger bounty acquired? I'm always iffy on suggestions, because nearly everything can be exploitable What?
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#7 - 2014-07-22 21:04:11 UTC
Zach Lemmont wrote:
I guess what i'm looking for is an incentive really.


The only incentive I've ever needed for spaceship violence is the simple fact that I can.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Zach Lemmont
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-07-22 21:11:08 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Zach Lemmont wrote:
I guess what i'm looking for is an incentive really.


The only incentive I've ever needed for spaceship violence is the simple fact that I can.


That's great, but not everyone thinks the same. We're playing a sandbox game essentially, so why does there have to be little to no options to go about doing something?
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#9 - 2014-07-22 21:14:13 UTC
Zach Lemmont wrote:
the part that bothers me is the lack on punishment players are able to put on said space pirates.


The ganking IS the punishment.

Undock in an expensive ship, warp off next to an asteroid, start the lasers and go do the laundry?

Punishment for foolish and careless behavior soon arrives in the form of a CODE. catalyst.

AFK a freighter through Aufay?

The human embodiment of punishment in the form of loyalanon and his band of piranha soon punish this absolutely bot aspirant behavior.

Smack talk a New Order Agent in local for enforcing the Code?

The "new guy" in your corp suddenly starts asploding the prize Orca along with the corp's herd of Macks as a just punishment for rebel activities in New Order systems.

Whether its AFK mining, Code resistant vulching, or just downright negligent failure to have a legal permit to mine in highsec, crime is, unfortunately, still rampant amongst the carebears. They are hardened criminals and, failing rehabiliation, can only be exterminated.

The OP is correct that there needs to be MORE punishment.... and we intend to deliver it.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com
Zach Lemmont
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-07-22 21:16:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Zach Lemmont
Bing Bangboom wrote:
Zach Lemmont wrote:
the part that bothers me is the lack on punishment players are able to put on said space pirates.


The ganking IS the punishment.

Undock in an expensive ship, warp off next to an asteroid, start the lasers and go do the laundry?

Punishment for foolish and careless behavior soon arrives in the form of a CODE. catalyst.

AFK a freighter through Aufay?

The human embodiment of punishment in the form of loyalanon and his band of piranha soon punish this absolutely bot aspirant behavior.

Smack talk a New Order Agent in local for enforcing the Code?

The "new guy" in your corp suddenly starts asploding the prize Orca along with the corp's herd of Macks as a just punishment for rebel activities in New Order systems.

Whether its AFK mining, Code resistant vulching, or just downright negligent failure to have a legal permit to mine in highsec, crime is, unfortunately, still rampant amongst the carebears. They are hardened criminals and, failing rehabiliation, can only be exterminated.

The OP is correct that there needs to be MORE punishment.... and we intend to deliver it.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable


Let me rephrase and edit that then. "Criminal Punishment". Basically all you are saying is there is no criminal punishment. Why not? Why can't we hire individual player bounty hunters?

The problem here is, is that there is little to no criminal punishment. So what if you're afk mining, some see that as okay and others don't. So the others who don't see it as a problem, how are they supposed to do anything about it effectively?
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#11 - 2014-07-22 21:30:41 UTC
Zach Lemmont wrote:


Let me rephrase and edit that then. "Criminal Punishment". Basically all you are saying is there is no criminal punishment. Why not? Why can't we hire individual player bounty hunters?

The problem here is, is that there is little to no criminal punishment. So what if you're afk mining, some see that as okay and others don't. So the others who don't see it as a problem, how are they supposed to do anything about it effectively?


What I am saying is that we define crime as breaking the Code (www.minerbumping.com) and THEN we punish the criminals. And we have no lack of ways of doing it.

There is nothing stopping other players from punishing what they consider crime. If we can do it, so can they. Complaining that there is a lack of punishment possible when we are providing a perfect example that punishment can be effectively, even overwhelmingly applied is simply an unwillingness to expand your definitions of crime and punishment. Or, as is more likely, an unwillingness to personally do what it takes to punish the offenders. The tools exist, you just lack the courage to use them.

In our Eve, the non compliant miners are the criminals. The AFK freighter pilots are the bad guys. The players that want to stop the New Order are rebels and enemies of peace and justice in highsec. We are punishing these criminals pretty effectively. Obviously your initial premise lacks real world justification.

BBB

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-07-22 22:04:11 UTC
Regarding highsec, I suggest removing Faction Police harassing neg sec status players, but denying them docking rights in stations except in a pod.

Also, make -2.0 legal targets to all in 1.0, -2.5 in 0.9 and so forth (if this isn't already the case - I couldn't find a straight answer anywhere and cba to test it myself).


Advantages:

. Neg status people free to hunt eachother in highsec, if they want
. Makes sense from a roleplay persepective (outlaws building their own hideouts)
. Encourages gankers to deploy assets in space, that can be attacked (by anyone, including rival gankers if any)
. Allows gankers to freely roam and spend more time in space, where they can be attacked (by anyone)
. Coherent with CCP's 'empires are losing grasp' storyline
. Less NPCs interfering in player gameplay
. More power to the players, to be either the bad guy or the good guy (or both) and settle matters among themselves

Disadvantages: none that I can think of.
If suicide ganking becomes too easy (because no facpo) or too hard (because no stations) compared to CCP's choice of highsec risk balancing, they could easily tweak CONCORD response times accordingly (shorter or longer, as needed).


My 0.02.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Kaea Astridsson
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#13 - 2014-07-22 23:10:23 UTC
-2.0 sec is viable targets in a 1.0 sec system, -2.5 good to shoot in 0.9 space. And so on.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Security_status

Get on Comms, or die typing.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-07-22 23:24:11 UTC
Kaea Astridsson wrote:
-2.0 sec is viable targets in a 1.0 sec system, -2.5 good to shoot in 0.9 space. And so on.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Security_status
Possibly, but it doesn't say so in the link you posted.

Have you tested it yourself? Or do you have a reliable source?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Kaea Astridsson
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#15 - 2014-07-22 23:37:53 UTC
It does say in the link, and yes - tried engaging targets with safety green. Think my last rookie ship kill was due to this. (Had to shoot something! Missed an itty v piloted by a -2,6.)

Get on Comms, or die typing.
Zero Sum Gain
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOM
#16 - 2014-07-22 23:41:54 UTC
Zach Lemmont wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Zach Lemmont wrote:
I guess what i'm looking for is an incentive really.


The only incentive I've ever needed for spaceship violence is the simple fact that I can.


That's great, but not everyone thinks the same. We're playing a sandbox game essentially, so why does there have to be little to no options to go about doing something?


You're misunderstanding. Sandbox means you can, which we can. Game mechanics based incentive means theme park.
Saeger1737
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#17 - 2014-07-22 23:48:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Saeger1737
Current crime watch system seems to have a ton of loopholes I admit, it would be nice if CCP would allow concord to deputize players to protect a region.

Creating a cop and robbers type content. Criminals could pay the deputies to look the other way, and industrial pilots could bark at deputies so we'll have no more stupid posts whining about how you lost everything in one ship.

MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-07-23 00:03:52 UTC
Wouldn't you say it's exactly the same as real life? Lot of criminals, hardly any crimefighters.
Police = FacPo, army = CONCORD.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#19 - 2014-07-23 00:04:05 UTC
Having killrights against you is a significant punishment.

If those killrights are not wasted by the idiots that hold them.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Paranoid Loyd
#20 - 2014-07-23 02:24:22 UTC
Zach Lemmont wrote:
Thank you all for not understanding what constructive feedback means :) very productive forums we have here!


If you can't stand the heat......

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
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