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Question on Crius processing formula

First post
Author
Ramcath
Boulder Shoulders Industries
#1 - 2014-07-22 23:12:04 UTC
Okay, so the new update for Crius is here and I've read the updates about reprocessing. I have read the charts as well, and here is where I begin to have a problem. I understand the new methods, and don't have an overall problem with the reduction in percentages for yield, because I do understand that the same amounts of materials will result from before, it just looks different.

The problem for me begins thusly:

1. The chart that is given in the Dev post states the different percentages based on skill level, reprocessing, reprocessing efficiency, and the +4 implant. This chart says that if you have all of these things in place then your yield will be 72.4%. Okay, I understand this, no problem. However...

2. My current skills based on the chart do not show correctly when I go to reprocess ore. It says that my % of reprocessing is 68%. Here's what I see when I took out some pyroxeres and tried to reprocess them in the Tash Murkon Family station in Tash Murkon Prime. It says:

Base yield: 50%
x1.15% bonus from Reprocessing (positive in green)
x1.1% bonus from Reprocessing Efficiency (positive in green)
x1.08% bonus from Ore Processing skills average(positive in green)
x1.04% bonus from Zainou Beancounter Reprocessing RX-804 (positive in green)
x1.0% reduction from station owner tax (IN RED - REDUCTION)

Okay, so here are my skills:

Reprocessing - Level V
Reprocessing Efficiency - Level V
Pyroxeres Processing - Level IV (only skill not at level V)
Zainou Implant - + 4% yield
Standings with Tash Murkon Family - 9.30 (Connections 4 raises your standing from 9.16 = Excellent Standing)

The problem I see here, based on the chart is that I should have no penalty from the station owner tax. When I go to reprocess the ore and view the possible results the results specifically show that 0.0 is being taken by the station owners, but I'm still having this negative % show up in the formula, and I believe this is what is lowering me to 68%. I have Excellent standings with many many corps all over Eve, so I can reprocess ore at no penalty, but even with the highest standing with Tash Murkon Family I am still showing a negative percentage (x1.0) in the formula being generated. If I am reading the chart correctly then I should be at 71.0% for reprocessing ore, since my skills (all but one) are maxed and I have the +4% implant.

When I calculate the percentages ( 50 x 1.15 x 1.1 x 1.08 x 1.04) this equals 71.04%, which is what I should have, so why am I receiving a negative penalty for Corp standing when I am 9.30 standing with Tash Murkon Family?

Can someone show me where I am either wrong, or not including something, or if this is a mistake that just hasn't been fixed by CCP yet.

If more details are needed please let me know.

Thanks,

Ram
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2014-07-22 23:43:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
All the numbers the OP presented look okay to me.

Yield should be: 71.0424%

Either it is a UI bug (example: 1.0% = really means multiplier 100%, used to be lots of these sort of errors in item info), or the tax formula has been changed.

Post in the Crius Issues thread.
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#3 - 2014-07-22 23:48:36 UTC
I'd like to know how to reduce the red station owner tax myself, no matter how many missions you run its the same, and even if you go to a completely unpopulated system, it looks the same :/

What gives??

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TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-07-23 00:13:51 UTC
When it comes to multipliers in the tooltips you should only really look at the figures behind the dot. Though I do agree, between percentages and multipliers it's getting pretty confusing sometimes. The 1.00% reduction took me by surprise as well at first before I realized it basically just says 0. Which you can confirm my looking at what the station owner takes in the quote.

Thing with those tool tips is, they really shouldn't be displaying a percentage for a value that is a multiplier.

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Ramcath
Boulder Shoulders Industries
#5 - 2014-07-23 00:47:14 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
When it comes to multipliers in the tooltips you should only really look at the figures behind the dot. Though I do agree, between percentages and multipliers it's getting pretty confusing sometimes. The 1.00% reduction took me by surprise as well at first before I realized it basically just says 0. Which you can confirm my looking at what the station owner takes in the quote.

Thing with those tool tips is, they really shouldn't be displaying a percentage for a value that is a multiplier.






I agree with you that you should only look at the figures behind the dot, the problem is that the percentage I'm getting is equivalent to putting in the negative -1.0%, so if this is something as simple as removing this from the UI then they need to do it, however I have a feeling that I am not receiving the full percentage the way I should be. I had to go afk but I'm back and will now see what percentages I can come up with when I actually do refine something, and compare that to the chart.
Ramcath
Boulder Shoulders Industries
#6 - 2014-07-23 00:59:41 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
When it comes to multipliers in the tooltips you should only really look at the figures behind the dot. Though I do agree, between percentages and multipliers it's getting pretty confusing sometimes. The 1.00% reduction took me by surprise as well at first before I realized it basically just says 0. Which you can confirm my looking at what the station owner takes in the quote.

Thing with those tool tips is, they really shouldn't be displaying a percentage for a value that is a multiplier.




Okay, new problem, here's what happened when I began to run the percentages. Looking at the chart I used an example of Scordite. The new chart says that at full levels, and +4, etc., that the amount of trit you will receive will be 346.

So I pulled out the calculator, and I should be at 71%, even though I have the negative reading for station tax, and guess what... I receive 246 units of trit. When you calculate 71% of 346, you get...... 246. So it looks like it's correct... BUT WAIT... it's not!!!

If the maximum amount you can receive is 346 (according to the new chart), and I'm getting 71% of that, then to be at the maximum a player would be receiving a maximum of 72.4% which is the equivalent of 346.

My point is, the chart is showing the amount you can receive, not what the maximum amount is, and then you have to multiple that by a percentage. No... the chart specifically says, along with the Dev blogs, that the chart given shows how much you were receiving before Crius, and what you'll receive now after the update. The chart isn't showing that the number given for maximum amount is a % of the next chart... is it?!?!

Sorry if this is completely confusing, but if you're looking at the charts in the Dev post then you know what I mean.
Darkblad
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-07-23 05:25:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
1. there's the Issues Thread stating:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Reprocessing yield tooltip sometimes displays the incorrect % yield.

Also, 68 % would be your yield without the implant: 50% x 1.15 x 1.1 x 1.08 = 68.31%

What would be helpful regaring your percentage mismatch with Pyroxeres in the OP: What's the quantity of Tritanium the tooltip states you would receive?

Skills & implant: 351 x 0.7104 = 249
Reprocessing window yield display 351 x 0.68 = 240


1. The "negative Mulitplier" of station tax is x1.0 i.e. neutral. You can ignore this one.


3. Your yield for Scordite
346 x 0,7104 = 245,798 next digit: 246

346 Units of Tritanium are in Scordite. That's just the maximum. You would get that, if you had a yield of 100%. Not possible. So 346 is not the maximum a player would be receiving at 72.4% yield (also note that there's way to raise your yield to up to 86.83%).

So that point you made is wrong.

NPEISDRIP

Sara Gator
The Nexus Paradigm
#8 - 2014-09-21 03:54:50 UTC
The 2% the OP is missing is because the implant seems to currently be broken.

I plugged mine in last week and there was no change in reprocessing percentages on ore. It says the bonus is getting applied in the UI, but the math points to it not functioning.
Dmitrii Satohin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-12-19 20:48:05 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
1. there's the Issues Thread stating:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Reprocessing yield tooltip sometimes displays the incorrect % yield.

Also, 68 % would be your yield without the implant: 50% x 1.15 x 1.1 x 1.08 = 68.31%

What would be helpful regaring your percentage mismatch with Pyroxeres in the OP: What's the quantity of Tritanium the tooltip states you would receive?

Skills & implant: 351 x 0.7104 = 249
Reprocessing window yield display 351 x 0.68 = 240


1. The "negative Mulitplier" of station tax is x1.0 i.e. neutral. You can ignore this one.


3. Your yield for Scordite
346 x 0,7104 = 245,798 next digit: 246

346 Units of Tritanium are in Scordite. That's just the maximum. You would get that, if you had a yield of 100%. Not possible. So 346 is not the maximum a player would be receiving at 72.4% yield (also note that there's way to raise your yield to up to 86.83%).

So that point you made is wrong.





How to get to 86.83% ?
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#10 - 2014-12-19 21:18:52 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Thread has been moved to Science & Industry.

Also, removed some off topic posts.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Civ Kado
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-12-19 23:17:01 UTC
Dmitrii Satohin wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
1. there's the Issues Thread stating:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Reprocessing yield tooltip sometimes displays the incorrect % yield.

Also, 68 % would be your yield without the implant: 50% x 1.15 x 1.1 x 1.08 = 68.31%

What would be helpful regaring your percentage mismatch with Pyroxeres in the OP: What's the quantity of Tritanium the tooltip states you would receive?

Skills & implant: 351 x 0.7104 = 249
Reprocessing window yield display 351 x 0.68 = 240


1. The "negative Mulitplier" of station tax is x1.0 i.e. neutral. You can ignore this one.


3. Your yield for Scordite
346 x 0,7104 = 245,798 next digit: 246

346 Units of Tritanium are in Scordite. That's just the maximum. You would get that, if you had a yield of 100%. Not possible. So 346 is not the maximum a player would be receiving at 72.4% yield (also note that there's way to raise your yield to up to 86.83%).

So that point you made is wrong.





How to get to 86.83% ?


Max skills, highest implant and reprocess the ores in a nullsec minmatar outpost.
Dmitrii Satohin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-12-20 19:47:31 UTC
Civ Kado wrote:
Dmitrii Satohin wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
1. there's the Issues Thread stating:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Reprocessing yield tooltip sometimes displays the incorrect % yield.

Also, 68 % would be your yield without the implant: 50% x 1.15 x 1.1 x 1.08 = 68.31%

What would be helpful regaring your percentage mismatch with Pyroxeres in the OP: What's the quantity of Tritanium the tooltip states you would receive?

Skills & implant: 351 x 0.7104 = 249
Reprocessing window yield display 351 x 0.68 = 240


1. The "negative Mulitplier" of station tax is x1.0 i.e. neutral. You can ignore this one.


3. Your yield for Scordite
346 x 0,7104 = 245,798 next digit: 246

346 Units of Tritanium are in Scordite. That's just the maximum. You would get that, if you had a yield of 100%. Not possible. So 346 is not the maximum a player would be receiving at 72.4% yield (also note that there's way to raise your yield to up to 86.83%).

So that point you made is wrong.





How to get to 86.83% ?


Max skills, highest implant and reprocess the ores in a nullsec minmatar outpost.




Explain me the math the
50% minmatar outpost
1,15reproces skill
1,1 deep reproces skill
1,1 ore skill
1,04 implant
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-12-20 20:19:20 UTC
Minmatar outposts aren't 50%

Quote:
All player-made outposts now have a 50% reprocessing facility by default, while the Minmatar outpost starts at 52%
Amarr, Caldari and Gallente outposts may be upgraded with refinery improvement platforms to 52%, 54% and 57% reprocessing efficiency to ores and ices (not applicable to other items)
Minmatar outposts may be upgraded with refinery improvement platforms to 54%, 57% and 60% reprocessing efficiency to ores and ices (not applicable to other items)

http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-crius