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W space little things.

First post First post
Author
Rei Moon
Perkone
Caldari State
#261 - 2014-07-22 05:01:26 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
Rei Moon wrote:
Make it viable to remove dead sticks from wh space.


Do you even dread/afktar fleet? Already easy and viable


I was thinking about something more... viable.. for small corps, Mr. Jester.
Anyway, Erica told me to ignore you...

Down the pole podcast "Annhhh"

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#262 - 2014-07-22 06:08:51 UTC
Rei Moon wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
Rei Moon wrote:
Make it viable to remove dead sticks from wh space.

Do you even dread/afktar fleet? Already easy and viable

I was thinking about something more... viable.. for small corps, Mr. Jester.
Anyway, Erica told me to ignore you...

just ignore them? hell we have one in our home we havent bothered shooting yet.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Erica Dusette
Division 13
#263 - 2014-07-22 07:15:17 UTC
Rei Moon wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
Rei Moon wrote:
Make it viable to remove dead sticks from wh space.


Do you even dread/afktar fleet? Already easy and viable


I was thinking about something more... viable.. for small corps, Mr. Jester.
Anyway, Erica told me to ignore you...

Please refrain from dragging my fine family name into you thread derailment attempts, or mentioning it in the same sentence as "Jester".

Jack Miton wrote:
just ignore them? hell we have one in our home we havent bothered shooting yet.

Can confirm two of us in fact visited Iso5 home yesterday and didn't get shot.

Although I was kinda hoping Jack would lock me up .... Oops

You know .. tackle me .. maybe.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#264 - 2014-07-22 08:19:18 UTC
Rei Moon wrote:
MaxDEL wrote:
Statistics back that was over API - PVP in WH is die. Your contractual fights are not wanted.
We roll WH 6-8 hours at day, but random gives nothing in our prime time. Before there was a sense it's stupid now. No point in playing this game.


Quit it then.
Who needs lazy logoff trap hunters anyways.
Or, go suicide ganking in hisec... it's way more funny


if logging off made you spawn randomly in the system within 4au of a celestial it still would not change your sentiments. So long as it exists within game then it's a valid tool to use (although a small part of died saying it)
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#265 - 2014-07-22 10:29:50 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
Rei Moon wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
Rei Moon wrote:
Make it viable to remove dead sticks from wh space.

Do you even dread/afktar fleet? Already easy and viable

I was thinking about something more... viable.. for small corps, Mr. Jester.
Anyway, Erica told me to ignore you...

Please refrain from dragging my fine family name into you thread derailment attempts, or mentioning it in the same sentence as "Jester".
Jack Miton wrote:
just ignore them? hell we have one in our home we havent bothered shooting yet.

Can confirm two of us in fact visited Iso5 home yesterday and didn't get shot.
Although I was kinda hoping Jack would lock me up .... Oops
You know .. tackle me .. maybe.

calm down woman! you get your own bunk.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Erica Dusette
Division 13
#266 - 2014-07-22 10:38:19 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:

calm down woman! you get your own bunk.

But .... Jack. Cry

It's The Federal Bandit, isn't it? X

Welp.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#267 - 2014-07-22 13:34:11 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:

calm down woman! you get your own bunk.

But .... Jack. Cry

It's The Federal Bandit, isn't it? X

Welp.



Dun worry Dusette, it'll be k. I can't believe you went to visit without me :<

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Erica Dusette
Division 13
#268 - 2014-07-22 14:28:46 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
I can't believe you went to visit without me :<

I was invited and it was an extreme emergency of extreme proportions that couldn't wait.

Unbelievably there are some people who still appreciate us as more than mere pixelated meat.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Borsek
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#269 - 2014-07-22 14:37:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Borsek
We probably need some fresh content, maybe in the form of new anomalies
or maybe in the form of new buildable ships from sleeper/wh loot.
Rather than focusing on c5 space, do some focus to attract the
merry young pilots, fresh blood, to w-space. If you balance low-end
hole content, perhaps to give out more blue goo, or if the alleged new
orcas or whatever they are supposed to be (t3 industrials were mentioned
late in the wormhole roundtable at fanffest) make it out, the market
eventually will balance itself out, possibly to give more income to the lower classes.

Sadly, I can't think of much that has not yet been mentioned in this
thread, or anything that couldn't be massively abused. Being
able to anchor mobile tractor units for corp, alliance
bookmarks and such ideas have all already been discussed, and will
ideally be implemented soon (tm). The only real little thing that keeps me
lying awake at night is not being able to assemble T3 ships in w-space.
It is a huge issue not only because it means that pod pilots are
sadly forced to go to k-space to assemble the shinies they can build
entirely in wormhole space. This could probably be easily fixed by
resizing the personal hangar array to about 200k m3, so we could assemble
strategic cruisers inside them. Hopefully this comes before the distant POS revamp.

First letter of every line.
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#270 - 2014-07-22 14:40:35 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
I can't believe you went to visit without me :<

I was invited and it was an extreme emergency of extreme proportions that couldn't wait.

Unbelievably there are some people who still appreciate us as more than mere pixelated meat.



Don't lie to yourself about what you truly are.

Now Candi on the other hand...

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Erica Dusette
Division 13
#271 - 2014-07-22 14:55:57 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
I can't believe you went to visit without me :<

I was invited and it was an extreme emergency of extreme proportions that couldn't wait.

Unbelievably there are some people who still appreciate us as more than mere pixelated meat.



Don't lie to yourself about what you truly are.

Now Candi on the other hand...

Exactly why Candi wasn't allowed to come.

Only so much class you can fit into a fleet, and thanks to Jack it was almost at capacity even before we arrived.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#272 - 2014-07-22 15:05:04 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
I can't believe you went to visit without me :<

I was invited and it was an extreme emergency of extreme proportions that couldn't wait.

Unbelievably there are some people who still appreciate us as more than mere pixelated meat.



Don't lie to yourself about what you truly are.

Now Candi on the other hand...

Exactly why Candi wasn't allowed to come.

Only so much class you can fit into a fleet, and thanks to Jack it was almost at capacity even before we arrived.


Should've brought me(( I can bring the class of a fleet to that of a whorehouse

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Erica Dusette
Division 13
#273 - 2014-07-22 15:31:48 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
Should've brought me(( I can bring the class of a fleet to that of a whorehouse

Well fair point there.

+1

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Brutus Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#274 - 2014-07-22 15:42:50 UTC
BayneNothos wrote:
Return Ore sites to Red Signature: Mining in W-Space is one of the most dangerous activities you can do. Back when they were Red Signatures you at least had protection in seeing probes on Dscan. As Green Anomalies that safety is gone and the miner is at the mercy of it's natural predators. Moving these back to Red Signatures would return the degree of safety back to miners, as well as making things interesting for those who hunt them as it used to be. This only needs to be a W-Space change, K Space can stay as it is. As an addition, making the Signature harder to scan down would also be nice.

Drifting Wormhole: Over DT, something is done to the precise location of the WH. As such after DT it is in a slightly different location, anywhere from a few hundred meters up to a dozen kilometres. This means remaking bookmarks for WH's along the entire chain so they're accurate. Having the WH not drift over DT by either doing whatever is causing the shift in location at initial spawn or just not drifting it would be nice.
Additional possibility: Embrace the drift. Have the WH every 15 minutes to two hours randomly drift in a random direction up to 100km. This would shake up WH camps into something a bit more chaotic.

Update BM location: Recreating bookmarks when they're wrong is a bit of an annoyance. Having inside the Right Click menu for the Bookmark the option to either update to current co-ords or update to current selected object's co-ords would be amazing.

Offgrid spawns: Occasionally one of the C4 Data or Relic sites spawns Sleepers off-grid. Sorry I can't remember which one exactly it is. I don't know if this is fixed or I just haven't seen it in a while.

New environment backgrounds: Can we get our space extra pretty as well please :)
Side Note: Can the C1 and C2 backgrounds be made more different. They're pretty close at a glance currently, especially when looking at it as part of a WH effect. A nice pretty green for C1's.

Security Status reset: Currently there's no way to change your security status in W-Space. If you go in negative, stay for a few years and come out you're still negative. It's be nice if gradually over time Concord "forgot" about you. Have the Sec Status slowly degrade towards zero (From both positive and negative) the longer you stay out of K Space. Something like the equivalent of ratting a single frigate for each day. Each day beyond one the strength of the sec status change could get slightly stronger so those who don't hit K-Space in any way for long periods, months for example, would get pretty decent sec status changes.

Epithal and Warp Core Stabilisers: 4 core stabbed Epithals. Needing 5 points of disruption to stop one of these is kind of ridiculous. Especially since the stabs don't do anything negative to the performance of the hauler. A reduction of lows or changes to the warp core stabiliser to make it's negative effects something relevant to non PvP ships would be best.
Noctis and Mobile Tractor Unit: The MTU has pretty much invalidated the existence of the Noctis. Can we get a rebalance on these so they have individual uses. Or better yet, send the MTU out back and burn to to death with a flamethrower.

WH Polarisation: Polarisation timers are directional A>>>B and B>>>A. For newer WH people this is confusing as from the players point of view, the WH is one object and having multiple separate timers is odd. Could these be squashed into the one timer, so A>>>B and B>>>A use the one timer. It should probably be rebalanced into a shorter timer overall as well if this is done.
Additional possibility: Have the polarisation timer modify based on the ship flown. Ideally off of Sensor Strength as this'd give a nice buff to larger ships, who could transit WH's faster. It's also give a nice buff to ECCM.

Hide 0% sigs: Currently under the Discovery Scanner a layer is alerted to a new signature whenever the Discovery Scanner wIndow refreshes itself. This is done automatically by the Scanner to an invisible timer and can also be forced by changing the sort of any of the columns or toggling the anomalies button. Due to the way WH's are spawned this means that people in the arriving system know about an incoming WH before the person who initiated warp to the WH arrives at that WH. There's been talk about a delay on the signature appearing before in a megathread but ideally the fix is simple. any signature at 0% inside W Space does not show up in the Probe Scanner Window. This would revert the system to the old way. The good way.



Sigs after DT have a minor bug. First person to warp will find them slighly off the BM location. Next person will not have the same problem.

I can see both sides of the mining point. Given the current situation take your Orca and roll your statics and you can sit mining in relative safety. No change needed. Just play the mechanics.
Sec Status is irrelevant to WH space. WH is not policed you can be red all day :) No change needed.
Reintroduce Local please (LOL)

WH space is dangerous space, make it so. Flex the mass limits more. Randomise statics so you no longer have access to HS everytime.

Enhance the danger / risk ration.

C1 Actually good isk for a small corp.
C2 Terrible sleeper loot, but nice access to HS
C3 Good isk for small corp.
C4 Pointless
C5 Excessive ISK
C6 Excessive ISK

Make all wormholes escalate. C1 with Battleships (I know you can't fly a BS into a C1)



corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#275 - 2014-07-22 16:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: corbexx
Brutus Crendraven wrote:

Enhance the danger / risk ration.

C1 Actually good isk for a small corp.
C2 Terrible sleeper loot, but nice access to HS
C3 Good isk for small corp.
C4 Pointless
C5 Excessive ISK
C6 Excessive ISK



God damn are you related to Adriana Nolen.

please provide numbers and stuff, not just total crap like that. seriously i posted some stuff already on another thread showing numbers, C1 and C2 is terrible isk and heavily reliant on nano ribbons. C3 is better and C4 is considerably better.

So this is what you need to do.

Make a spread sheet with every site on it in wh space (I've obviously split mine up in to classes) Important stuff thats worth noting, ship used (and skills) how long each site took, total isk from blue books, average nano ribbons (i'm running every site 10 times) total isk from BB and nanos, how long it took you to salvage each site, from this you can then work out a isk per hour for each site. which will show which site is best to run (most this is already known but i need exact numbers) You could take a average of the 4 combat sites if you wanted.

If you want to do extra stuff as i have feel free to include how far each wave is from a 0 warp in and also how far they are from each other, pics are also great along with time to clear each wave.

Ooh and then do it for all the relic and data sites and include all the relic and data stuff as well. thats close to 500 sites.
remember alot cant be done on your own so you need mates.

Once you have done that then come to me with proper god damn numbers not crap you've pulled out of thin air.

I figure i still have a month or so to finish I really hope i can get it done before the summer summit.

C5 and C6 are decent isk for the cap escalations but they are limited after that it drops off real fast.

P.S c1 and c2 income is total crap for the sites you are way way better and a hell of alot safer to go hisec and run incursions.
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#276 - 2014-07-22 16:57:26 UTC
If you're using Tengus
Pro-tip for C4s: Warp Frontier Barracks at 100km, you'll either land within missile range or far enough out that you have to burn only a few km to warp-in or you can warp-in immediately.

Also, in C4s don't run anything but Sleeper Information Sanctums and Frontier Barracks. The rest are pretty ****** isk/hr

Sorry Corbexx, don't have numbers to back this up, this is just experience from living in C4s for a while.

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#277 - 2014-07-22 17:44:19 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
If you're using Tengus
Pro-tip for C4s: Warp Frontier Barracks at 100km, you'll either land within missile range or far enough out that you have to burn only a few km to warp-in or you can warp-in immediately.

Also, in C4s don't run anything but Sleeper Information Sanctums and Frontier Barracks. The rest are pretty ****** isk/hr

Sorry Corbexx, don't have numbers to back this up, this is just experience from living in C4s for a while.


aye cheers had a fair few people give me advice on c4 space (pretty bad considering my alt corp lives in a c4-c3) and yeah basically only thing run is the frontier. but I'll be doing them all so i have proper numbers.
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#278 - 2014-07-22 18:50:59 UTC
corbexx wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
If you're using Tengus
Pro-tip for C4s: Warp Frontier Barracks at 100km, you'll either land within missile range or far enough out that you have to burn only a few km to warp-in or you can warp-in immediately.

Also, in C4s don't run anything but Sleeper Information Sanctums and Frontier Barracks. The rest are pretty ****** isk/hr

Sorry Corbexx, don't have numbers to back this up, this is just experience from living in C4s for a while.


aye cheers had a fair few people give me advice on c4 space (pretty bad considering my alt corp lives in a c4-c3) and yeah basically only thing run is the frontier. but I'll be doing them all so i have proper numbers.


Sleeper Information Sanctums are the by far the fastest and have either one more or the same amount of BS as a Frontier Barracks. You also don't have to muck around with warpins on them which is beautiful.

When I lived in a C4, we used RR Tengus. Maybe not the most efficient thing, but it worked. Every site except SIS you can run with 2 RR Tengus. SIS requires 3. If you have good missile skills and a booster, you can don't need to move too much from the warp in of the Frontier Barracks, and if you know where the spawns are, you can be constantly applying DPS.

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Hatshepsut IV
Un.Reasonable
#279 - 2014-07-22 19:12:02 UTC
Brutus Crendraven wrote:


...Enhance the danger / risk ration.

C1 Actually good isk for a small corp.
C2 Terrible sleeper loot, but nice access to HS
C3 Good isk for small corp.
C4 Pointless
C5 Excessive ISK
C6 Excessive ISK...





These represent nothing more then your own personal opinion formed about the amount of isk pulled in.

C4s are far from pointless and are actually some of the best isk to be made for small/solo groups and its a good deal safer half the time then c2/3 with its higher traffic.

c5/6 isk is really only good when you are doing it solo/few people double boxing. When done this way you are a giant target. For the mid/larger groups that isk divided up between all the people doing it and taxed to support the corp/alliance cost its really not what you and all the other cry foul high class people have all the toys make it out to be.

Public Channel | Un.Welcome

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#280 - 2014-07-23 03:58:04 UTC
You start running numbers on loot and asking for adjustments, you will get nothing but nerfs.

C1, good for a small corp, being 10 people. Anything over that and you will wipe out every site in there easily. Issue is that the only C1's generally occupied are C1 HS's, and the occasional C1 lowsec. Virtually nobody occupies a C1 nullsec (because the hole takes 20+ retrievers to roll).

C2 isn't about farming the C2, its about farming the static. In most cases, nobody is complaining about them.

C3 has the same issue the C1 has, minus the issue of rolling the hole. Its pretty isolated but people like it. Better loot.

C4 has its own qualities. Its the deepest wormhole you can get into and the most isolated with 0 k-space connections. This is a fantastic benefit for people that want to live in deep space wormholes, but not deal with capitals (think of it as lowsec without hot drops of dreads). The issue with C4's is that being so isolated, it only has one way in or out. It seriously should have two statics. Some people will hate it, but they should be less of a farming bear hole and more onpar with C2's.

C5's and C6's we all know about.

If I were to address loot, it would not be about adjusting loot drops or finding the optimum isk per hour change for sites, as there are highsec, lowsec and nullsec sites that are garbage isk for hour. I would look at is as a method of solo and gang oriented gameplay. Wormholes are a progression, and the progression should be nurtured from the bottom up.

1) C1's should be easier to roll. The max mass though is 20,000,000 (which is a retriever). This needs to be looked at. 60,000,000 max mass should not be much of an issue for a C1 wormhole entrance. (allows hulks in, disallows battleships except the Nestor).

2) C2's are pretty much fine.

3) C3's are in most cases fine also.

4) For C1 through C3 space, all relic/data and gas sites should have its sleeper spawns removed from it. This allows explorers in lower wormholes or day tripping to do just that, explore, without having to leave the wormhole, get their combat ship, fly back, blow the rats, leave, get their exploration ship, then run the damn site. The sleepers that were in the C1-C3 relic/gas/data sites should be readded to the combat sites of C1's through C3's. C4's through C6 are unaffected.

This makes C1's through C3's combat sites a bit tougher, but rewards explorers with gaining access to new loot (basically it makes the newbies a bit happy as there is something they can actually DO without having a Battlecruiser with them). It rewards probing wormholes, exploring chains, then getting a site you can do in your covert ops.

5) C4's should have two statics (this has been floated around alot). Its the deepest of wormhole space, it should also be one of the most heavily trafficed area's. This would also help alleviate the C4 superhighway people run into from time to time.



Most of this stuff has been talked about though.

Yaay!!!!