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Dev Blog: Alliance Logos & You - Clarification on submissions

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CCP Falcon
#321 - 2014-07-22 08:47:49 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:


Do
not
remove
alliance
logos
EVER

You will make a lot of people extremely angry if you do this, and doubtless some people will leave the game over it.

Template logos like what we have with corporations cannot provide the same sense of individual expression and identity that custom-designed logos can. If you go this route you will be making a tremendous mistake and alienating a large portion of your playerbase even further than you already have with this fiasco.


I'm completely with you on this, and I've stressed this point explicitly to our development team and the art team.

When I was a player, even just running my own tiny <200 man alliance, having a logo was a fundamental part of our identity, and it's something that for sure I never want to see Alliances lose in game.

I can appreciate that this is really frustrating for alliances with the situation effectively in limbo for now, it's frustrating as hell for me too as it's something I want resolved and taken care of.

There's really not a huge amount I can do personally other than ensuring that this is kept at the forefront of development's mind, as I don't control feature prioritization. Smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Jenna Alberta
Tag Tax Collection Office
#322 - 2014-07-22 08:53:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenna Alberta
Quote:
On the wiki...

CCP has allowed Alliance logos in EVE since 2005. As with so much player-created content, Alliance logos add to the history, lore and beauty of EVE and CCP welcomes your submission. From the outset of this submission and approval process, however, we would like to remind you that, as stated in Section 10.B. of the EULA, CCP owns all the intellectual property rights in Alliance names, logos and any other player-created content in EVE. This is industry standard, and it’s necessary for CCP to embark on other endeavors (such as blogs, comic books, etc.) that might reference Alliance names or logos.

CCP appreciates that many Alliances pay their server costs and otherwise support their gameplay by selling Alliance-related products. As part of this submission and approval process, CCP will give you a royalty-free license to use the approved Alliance name and logo for commercial purposes. Even though CCP will retain all ownership rights, you will be able to distribute, sell and enjoy use of your Alliance name and logo outside of EVE.



Why cant we reverse this idea? as in.... instead of CCP... giving the royalty free license for us who truly own the Logo....
Why cant CCP just create a contract/bind eula that when submitting a logo. We (the creators of the logos) own all Intellectual Property cirghts in Alliance names & logos, however, that we give CCP full exclusive royalty free use of those logos & names, as such that CCP may embark on other endeavors (such as blogs, comics, etc).

Im sure all alliance/players that would own those logos would never object to what CCP would do to those logos and names (ofc as long as its not damaging the image of that particular entity) if anything its free marketing for those owners/alliances, etc

its just an idea :) or if CCP needs to protect it self from owners wanting to sue CCP, then create a binding contract that states that once agreed, we cannot drag CCP to court for any reason (unless its a damaging one) basically like what Sony did after the Hack on PSN. meaning you cannot sue them but you have to work with them instead directly to solve the issue

I mean this can be simple to solve really... but CCP is not really showing any work on this matter.

Falcon said and I quote:
Quote:
For now, the alliance logos that are in game will remain there, however we won't be accepting any new submissions.

In terms of a resolution to the issue, we'll be looking at it as part of a rehash of corporations and alliances in an upcoming release.

There's no timeframe for this release as of yet, and the situation can be considered as unchanged as of now.

Since there's already a multitude of threads open on this, this one is being locked.



This is basically the same answer (more or less) on the day logo submission have been halted.
Again, why not clear the Queue still tho? why stop the process when theres still a few more logos that are already half way through its submission. I can understand halting the entire process for new submission, but u just dont stop on going process just like that (its basically showing that you guys are clueless to this point on what to do). At the very least show that CCP is willing.
Curious tho.. howmany Logos are in the submission que? right before the process was officially halted?
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#323 - 2014-07-22 09:09:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Romanov
CCP Falcon wrote:
There's really not a huge amount I can do


You could sticky the thread so we don't keep having to bump it.

And update the OP to include CCP's current decision to suspend logos for the time being, as you wrote in James' other thread.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#324 - 2014-07-22 09:14:56 UTC
The legal department with tails between their legs, I suspect.

I dare say when they wrote up their rules and sent them to the developers to publish, they didn't expect a couple of hundred community members to reveal themselves as legitimately knowledgeable about IP law and call them on it. Or if they did, that they would not be the ones front and centre having to defend it.

There's really only two choices I can see. Either a directive has come from senior management that CCP intends to uniquely profit off of the alliance logos, or roadblock for the sake of being stubborn.

Either way, it's not great.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#325 - 2014-07-22 09:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarnis McPieksu
Sentient Blade wrote:
The legal department with tails between their legs, I suspect.

I dare say when they wrote up their rules and sent them to the developers to publish, they didn't expect a couple of hundred community members to reveal themselves as legitimately knowledgeable about IP law and call them on it. Or if they did, that they would not be the ones front and centre having to defend it.

There's really only two choices I can see. Either a directive has come from senior management that CCP intends to uniquely profit off of the alliance logos, or roadblock for the sake of being stubborn.

Either way, it's not great.


If the legal department is incapable of solving this kind of minor issue, they should be ashamed.

All CCP needs is a non-exclusive, irrevocable and no-cost license to the art players submit for use with EVE and the right to further license it as part of EVE data exports (for uses like third party killboards etc.).

Rest of the rights stay with the alliance that created the logo. They can do (and sell) T-Shirts etc as they please. This is definitely not rocket science. End result is that if you want your logo to be in the game, CCP has rights to it - non-exclusively - so they can use it as they wish in the game etc. without any potential legal pitfalls. Alliances can use their own logo as they damn well please as the license would be non-exclusive.
Jared Noan
Harbingers of Chaos Inc.
Fraternity.
#326 - 2014-07-22 18:32:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jared Noan
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:


If the legal department is incapable of solving this kind of minor issue, they should be ashamed.

All CCP needs is a non-exclusive, irrevocable and no-cost license to the art players submit for use with EVE and the right to further license it as part of EVE data exports (for uses like third party killboards etc.).

Rest of the rights stay with the alliance that created the logo. They can do (and sell) T-Shirts etc as they please. This is definitely not rocket science. End result is that if you want your logo to be in the game, CCP has rights to it - non-exclusively - so they can use it as they wish in the game etc. without any potential legal pitfalls. Alliances can use their own logo as they damn well please as the license would be non-exclusive.


Only one problem with that, corporate lawyers get paid by the hour. The longer this drags out the more they get paid.
Amely Miles
Second Exile
#327 - 2014-07-25 16:08:28 UTC
Yep .... i will continue to post here and keep this forum thread up for every CEO and Alliance Executor in eve to see Big smile

As I slipped my finger slowly inside her hole, I could immediately feel it getting wetter and wetter.

I took my finger back out and within seconds she was going down on me.

"I really need a new boat," I thought to myself.
Amely Miles
Second Exile
#328 - 2014-07-26 08:35:30 UTC
they call me ....Mr. Sticky!! ...wait waaa did i just say Shocked

As I slipped my finger slowly inside her hole, I could immediately feel it getting wetter and wetter.

I took my finger back out and within seconds she was going down on me.

"I really need a new boat," I thought to myself.
Amely Miles
Second Exile
#329 - 2014-07-27 07:11:24 UTC
They call me Mr. Bumps Alot ... no that doesn't work either

As I slipped my finger slowly inside her hole, I could immediately feel it getting wetter and wetter.

I took my finger back out and within seconds she was going down on me.

"I really need a new boat," I thought to myself.
Jenna Alison
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#330 - 2014-07-28 00:48:10 UTC
bump
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#331 - 2014-07-28 00:48:46 UTC
Sticky this damn thread.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Amely Miles
Second Exile
#332 - 2014-07-28 04:30:02 UTC
stickying it would do the opposite of what they want which is to put it out of sight out of mind

As I slipped my finger slowly inside her hole, I could immediately feel it getting wetter and wetter.

I took my finger back out and within seconds she was going down on me.

"I really need a new boat," I thought to myself.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#333 - 2014-07-28 13:29:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Akrasjel Lanate
CCP Seagull reply from reddit AMA

Quote:

This topic is an entangled mess of both legal and art direction issues. What I want is for corporations and alliances to have a visual identity in the game - how exactly we can do that and when I don't know yet. But the question has been left hanging for too long, so I am picking it up with the involved people in August.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#334 - 2014-07-28 13:38:39 UTC
Cool. Why not consolidate it in this thread?

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
Amely Miles
Second Exile
#335 - 2014-07-28 18:27:22 UTC
cause that would make to much sense

As I slipped my finger slowly inside her hole, I could immediately feel it getting wetter and wetter.

I took my finger back out and within seconds she was going down on me.

"I really need a new boat," I thought to myself.
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#336 - 2014-07-29 15:58:42 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
There's really not a huge amount I can do personally other than ensuring that this is kept at the forefront of development's mind, as I don't control feature prioritization. Smile

Hold on for a second.
How did the problem suddenly shift from CCP's legal department not redrafting their policy change to being a development issue?

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Amely Miles
Second Exile
#337 - 2014-07-29 17:24:24 UTC
Enaris Kerle wrote:

Hold on for a second.
How did the problem suddenly shift from CCP's legal department not redrafting their policy change to being a development issue?


CCP Falcon wrote:
In terms of a resolution to the issue, we'll be looking at it as part of a rehash of corporations and alliances in an upcoming release.



Basicly theres going to be a Corp/Alliance Expansion from the sounds of it which will fix the IP Issue....cause it's Magic

As I slipped my finger slowly inside her hole, I could immediately feel it getting wetter and wetter.

I took my finger back out and within seconds she was going down on me.

"I really need a new boat," I thought to myself.
RDevz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#338 - 2014-07-30 22:33:38 UTC
RDevz wrote:
Why, precisely, can't CCP instead be given a universal, assignable, non-revocable, royalty-free licence to use alliance logos as part of the submission process, and avoid this blatant copyright land-grab that will just lead to lawyers getting richer if ever used in anger?


Quoting myself from page 2 of this thread. A verbatim response from one of CCP's crack legal team would be appreciated.

~
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#339 - 2014-07-30 22:35:48 UTC
lol, crack legal team

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Amely Miles
Second Exile
#340 - 2014-07-31 05:34:47 UTC
this really needs to be fixed ....

As I slipped my finger slowly inside her hole, I could immediately feel it getting wetter and wetter.

I took my finger back out and within seconds she was going down on me.

"I really need a new boat," I thought to myself.