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Tank Balance
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Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2011-12-07 19:55:57 UTC
That actually auto-repairs while an armor tank needs a repairer.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Midori Tsu
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#22 - 2011-12-07 20:03:00 UTC
The amount of stupid radiating from this thread is amazing.
Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2011-12-07 20:04:24 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
I want a laser/shield ship. Space technology! Plus the fact that the tank uses no cap would be a good thing for the lasers.


It exists! its called Sansha ships. Going to have to get used to the pain spikes though.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#24 - 2011-12-07 20:05:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Morganta
the other nice thing about the vanilla pvp cane is if you drop the point for either a invlun II or damage specific hardner you can easily solo lvl3s and even some 4s provided you are careful about pulling too much agro at once

I've soloed c3 sleeper grav sites with a cane with an enjoyable amount of difficulty, I wouldn't try anything over a mining site in a hole though.
NickyYo
modro
The Initiative.
#25 - 2011-12-07 20:38:27 UTC
Lord Ryan wrote:
Morganta wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:
NickyYo wrote:
Just so you know.
Armor tanking = PVP
Shield tanking = Carebearing PVE
Shield tankers can't fit MWD and tackle and have a good tank at the same time, armor can! :)


How wrong you are


this

typical pvp cane

6x 425mm ACII
2x neuts or missiles

2x LSE
1x MWD
1X point

3x gyrostab II
1x DC II
2x TE II

2x medium CDFE
1x medium anti-EM

about a 45k buffer tank


^that^


Your all doing it wrong..
Armor buffer hurricanes are best hurricanes, and will of course kill the above fit in a 1v1 fight :)

..
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#26 - 2011-12-07 20:42:36 UTC
Armor ftw.


Shield may have dps. But armor tanking allows you for some great ewar.

Example - armor tanking scorp with 8x ecm.

or the ecm ishtar - lolz yes it does work and its stupid funny .

but also, on shield ships you have to sacrifice tank for a mwd and point in pvp, where in armor you maybe a bit slower but you dont have to sacrifice tank to keep a player or npc locked down.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2011-12-07 20:42:47 UTC
NickyYo wrote:
Lord Ryan wrote:
Morganta wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:
NickyYo wrote:
Just so you know.
Armor tanking = PVP
Shield tanking = Carebearing PVE
Shield tankers can't fit MWD and tackle and have a good tank at the same time, armor can! :)


How wrong you are


this

typical pvp cane

6x 425mm ACII
2x neuts or missiles

2x LSE
1x MWD
1X point

3x gyrostab II
1x DC II
2x TE II

2x medium CDFE
1x medium anti-EM

about a 45k buffer tank


^that^


Your all doing it wrong..
Armor buffer hurricanes are best hurricanes, and will of course kill the above fit in a 1v1 fight :)


Good thing there's no such thing as a 1 vs 1 fight

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
NickyYo
modro
The Initiative.
#28 - 2011-12-07 20:50:06 UTC  |  Edited by: NickyYo
Armor hurricanes all fitted with sensor dampeners in those spare mid slots is also a very good tactic against those pesky shield canes and drakes with logistic support :) Couldn't do that with shield could ya ? :)
You could even fit ECM on the canes like the above post says, sounds shoddy but it works surprisingly good!

Empire carebears and 0.0 PVP NOOBS do shield.

..
Midori Tsu
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#29 - 2011-12-07 20:50:12 UTC
NickyYo wrote:
Lord Ryan wrote:
Morganta wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:
NickyYo wrote:
Just so you know.
Armor tanking = PVP
Shield tanking = Carebearing PVE
Shield tankers can't fit MWD and tackle and have a good tank at the same time, armor can! :)


How wrong you are


this

typical pvp cane

6x 425mm ACII
2x neuts or missiles

2x LSE
1x MWD
1X point

3x gyrostab II
1x DC II
2x TE II

2x medium CDFE
1x medium anti-EM

about a 45k buffer tank


^that^


Your all doing it wrong..
Armor buffer hurricanes are best hurricanes, and will of course kill the above fit in a 1v1 fight :)


Accept the shield tanked cane has the ability to disengage.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2011-12-07 21:01:29 UTC
Midori Tsu wrote:


Accept the shield tanked cane has the ability to disengage.


Is the same fit with 650mm artillery viable? It should get some nice kiting ability with its superior range.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#31 - 2011-12-07 21:10:19 UTC
When it comes to active tanking:
Shield and Armour is about equal .. in that they are both utter crap for anything PvP related (very few exceptions).

Active tanking needs a rethink to allow for much higher bursting (at equal increase in cost obviously) so that the niche it currently occupies (very small gang <5, solo) is widened a tad as the burst rep effective acts like a buffer.

There, sorted.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2011-12-07 21:12:48 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
When it comes to active tanking:
Shield and Armour is about equal .. in that they are both utter crap for anything PvP related (very few exceptions).

Active tanking needs a rethink to allow for much higher bursting (at equal increase in cost obviously) so that the niche it currently occupies (very small gang <5, solo) is widened a tad as the burst rep effective acts like a buffer.

There, sorted.


XL shield boosted cyclone would like to have an talk with you ...

Active shield tank is superior in any way to active armor tank... since who needs two minutes cap anyway ???
Sure cap warfare gonna screw both, shield gonna be screwed harder and quicker.. but thats about it.
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#33 - 2011-12-07 21:16:25 UTC
The Cyclone hulls are included in the "very few exceptions" clause, dear Smile

Was actually thinking more of the scary tank on Sleipnir's, but it does cover the Cyclone as well ..
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#34 - 2011-12-07 21:16:51 UTC
I use both and they both have thier value

armour less cap per recharge no cap dead in the water

shield on demand. no cap then a slight recharge unless completely passive.


If you buffer with shields you are a bigger target
if you buffer with armour you are slower


The biggest think you said was that you have not played for very long. Ask these questions in the noob channels and they will tell you straight 
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2011-12-07 21:18:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
The Cyclone hulls are included in the "very few exceptions" clause, dear Smile

Was actually thinking more of the scary tank on Sleipnir's, but it does cover the Cyclone as well ..


fair enough.. I cant actually think of any other active shield tanked ships then cyclone and sleipnir.. well maybe maelstroms .. but thats it..

ah forgot tengu

4,8k omnit tank cap stable .. however with not so great dmg output.. and only with about 10k ehp ..
Minister of Death
Colossus Enterprises
#36 - 2011-12-07 21:30:49 UTC
Midori Tsu wrote:
The amount of stupid radiating from this thread is amazing.


it tripled when you posted, oxygen thief
Cerberine Saken
Eternal Ennui
#37 - 2011-12-07 21:42:32 UTC
One thing I haven't seen mentioned much in this thread, if at all, is the issue of agility and speed. Armour tanking increases your weight (I'm looking at you, 1600mm rolled tungsten), and armour rigs decrease your max velocity. Together, this means your top speed is lower, you align slower, and it takes you longer to reach top speed.

By contrast, shield tanking does ****-all to your weight, although it does blow up your sig radius. Shield-tanking also frees up your low slots for damage mods, but is very cap-heavy (even in buffer tanks) and affords you less utility.
flank steak
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2011-12-07 21:44:50 UTC
there is a reason no one flies the Wyvern
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#39 - 2011-12-07 21:45:34 UTC
Seems to me that the reason shield tanks are more used than armor is because more people fly shield tank ships (drake) than armor.
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2011-12-07 21:47:32 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:

If you buffer with shields you are a bigger target
if you buffer with armour you are slower


If you remember nothing else from this thread, this should be your biggest take away point.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
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