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Restrict NPC Corporation Posting Abilities.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#901 - 2014-07-21 19:03:52 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
You are casually tossing aside some peoples chosen form of game play simply because you dont care about it. What if the NPC said lets get rid of PC corp trolls by making so nobody can post unless they are in an NPC corp, sounds stupid because it is.


He isn't doing anything to anyone's play style there would be nothing stopping you from playing solo while being a member of an organization. It happens all the time in the CFC and plenty of other corporations I usually end up awoxing.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#902 - 2014-07-21 19:08:00 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Getting rid of NPC trolls helps everyone. Not having the game's official forums be a toxic trollpit every time some people roll up new alts would help a great deal with the game's reputation, for starters.

All of us here that enjoy legitimate discourse are tarnished by the abuse of NPC forum alts on a daily basis. We all stand to benefit, as does the game itself, if this particular abuse is dealt with.

And as for any negative effects, this is very easily circumvented. Anyone who wants legitimate discussion will easily be able to obtain it. It's a very small barrier to entry, that does not even apply to a whole bunch of forums (meaning new players can still ask questions and weigh in on stickies) but one that is proven to work.


You are casually tossing aside some peoples chosen form of game play simply because you dont care about it. What if the NPC said lets get rid of PC corp trolls by making so nobody can post unless they are in an NPC corp, sounds stupid because it is.

Did you read that "what if" before posting it?
No one decided anything casually.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Dhaq
Doomheim
#903 - 2014-07-21 19:10:13 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Yep we've already been over this not all alts are trolls but, enough are that this change is worth doing. I encourage you to read the thread and post in a coherent manner.


So if a number of players in any corporation are found to be troll posting can we ban all members within that corporation from posting as well?
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#904 - 2014-07-21 19:16:02 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
You are casually tossing aside some peoples chosen form of game play simply because you dont care about it. What if the NPC said lets get rid of PC corp trolls by making so nobody can post unless they are in an NPC corp, sounds stupid because it is.


He isn't doing anything to anyone's play style there would be nothing stopping you from playing solo while being a member of an organization. It happens all the time in the CFC and plenty of other corporations I usually end up awoxing.


We've gone over and over and over this, exactly what part of NPC play style is confusing you?

It is by definition NOT, let me repeat it because apparently it takes quite a bit to sink in, NOT the same as playing in a 1 man corp.

Your continued unwillingness to accept that being in a 1 man corp and being in an NPC corp are entirely different play styles with real in-game differences simply because you wish to ignore the point will not change the fact that you are saying, 'if you want to post you must play EVE as i tell you to because Im selfish and want it that way".

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#905 - 2014-07-21 19:19:07 UTC
Dhaq wrote:

So if a number of players in any corporation are found to be troll posting can we ban all members within that corporation from posting as well?


Sure once players can create a fresh character that starts in that player corporation, be immune to awoxing, be immune to corporation theft, be immune to war declarations, be recyclable without any significant cost, and be used to troll to the point they degrade the quality of the forum.

Until then no.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#906 - 2014-07-21 19:21:35 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

We've gone over and over and over this, exactly what part of NPC play style is confusing you?

It is by definition NOT, let me repeat it because apparently it takes quite a bit to sink in, NOT the same as playing in a 1 man corp.

Your continued unwillingness to accept that being in a 1 man corp and being in an NPC corp are entirely different play styles with real in-game differences simply because you wish to ignore the point will not change the fact that you are saying, 'if you want to post you must play EVE as i tell you to because Im selfish and want it that way".


There is no such thing as an NPC play style unless you find role playing as a belt/mission/site rat to be a play style.

Nothing is confusing me here you're trying to insist that this change is somehow destroying a play style when it isn't.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#907 - 2014-07-21 19:41:04 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Dhaq wrote:

So if a number of players in any corporation are found to be troll posting can we ban all members within that corporation from posting as well?


Sure once players can create a fresh character that starts in that player corporation, be immune to awoxing, be immune to corporation theft, be immune to war declarations, be recyclable without any significant cost, and be used to troll to the point they degrade the quality of the forum.

Until then no.


You are trying to "nerf" NPC corps by using the excuse of the forums. If you want to change how in game NPC corps are working, ask for change in game. If you want the design of an in game feature to be modified, ask for in-game change to it, not out of game rules to be changed.

Not all NPC character are trolling. NPC player can be killed by following the in game rules to do so. If you want those in game rules to be changed, then ask for change to those rules, not the ones for the forum.

Your idea makes no sense as long as you cannot prove every NPC character is an alt created for trolling.

If you want NPC corps to be nerfed, ask for nerfs to in game NPC corps.

If you want to get rid of forum trolls, ask for CCP to enforce their own forum rules. Enforcing good moderation rules can rid you of trolls. You know this very well and it has the benefit of not stepping on anyone's toes for a false labeling by association.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#908 - 2014-07-21 19:44:45 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

Yep we've already been over this not all alts are trolls but, enough are that this change is worth doing. I encourage you to read the thread and post in a coherent manner.

No, you assert enough are. Others in this thread assert that enough Goons are trolls all the CFC should be banned from the forums. It's all a matter of perspective. I see more troll and bad posts by members of large coalitions than I do of NPC corps, you are deliberately looking for troll posts from NPC corps to back your argument so obviously you see more of those.

However your basic premise is flawed. Because Alts that never undock are never at risk regardless of if they are in a player corp or NPC corp. The status of the corp makes no difference, it's if they undock. And as soon as they undock they are at risk so if you don't like their posting you can kill them regardless of what corp they are in.

So stopping posting based on corp is nothing to do with risk, it's all to do with shutting down people who might oppose you in a forum thread.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#909 - 2014-07-21 19:48:40 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

We've gone over and over and over this, exactly what part of NPC play style is confusing you?

It is by definition NOT, let me repeat it because apparently it takes quite a bit to sink in, NOT the same as playing in a 1 man corp.

Your continued unwillingness to accept that being in a 1 man corp and being in an NPC corp are entirely different play styles with real in-game differences simply because you wish to ignore the point will not change the fact that you are saying, 'if you want to post you must play EVE as i tell you to because Im selfish and want it that way".


There is no such thing as an NPC play style unless you find role playing as a belt/mission/site rat to be a play style.

Nothing is confusing me here you're trying to insist that this change is somehow destroying a play style when it isn't.


Being a member of a NPC corp brings different opportunity/limitation in game. Until player corporation can set them self to abide by the same exact rules, being in a player corporation is a choice which should not devalue you as a costumer for CCP.

Your proposition is asking CCP to treat part of it's player base as second rate costumer because of some trolls. Why don't we just rid the trolls of their posting privilege since they already were given the chance to prove their worth or lack thereof while joe newbie didn't and some excellent posters could for some reason be sent to a NPC corp at least for some time. Any rules you would use to prevent such players from being proverbially gagged unless they bend the knee to whatever rules you want would of course be abused by the actual trolls unless you effectively dealt with such trolls which is what should be done in the first place.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#910 - 2014-07-21 20:00:41 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

You are trying to "nerf" NPC corps by using the excuse of the forums. If you want to change how in game NPC corps are working, ask for change in game. If you want the design of an in game feature to be modified, ask for in-game change to it, not out of game rules to be changed.

Not all NPC character are trolling. NPC player can be killed by following the in game rules to do so. If you want those in game rules to be changed, then ask for change to those rules, not the ones for the forum.

Your idea makes no sense as long as you cannot prove every NPC character is an alt created for trolling.

If you want NPC corps to be nerfed, ask for nerfs to in game NPC corps.

If you want to get rid of forum trolls, ask for CCP to enforce their own forum rules. Enforcing good moderation rules can rid you of trolls. You know this very well and it has the benefit of not stepping on anyone's toes for a false labeling by association.


No if you had read the OP my concern is forum quality I don't have a preference either way for NPC corporations. Again we've already been over this before if you read the thread you would know. The change does more good than harm and it is unfortunate that some non-trolls will be affected by this change much like it was unfortunate some non-abusers were affected by the drone assist changes.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#911 - 2014-07-21 20:03:16 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

We've gone over and over and over this, exactly what part of NPC play style is confusing you?

It is by definition NOT, let me repeat it because apparently it takes quite a bit to sink in, NOT the same as playing in a 1 man corp.

Your continued unwillingness to accept that being in a 1 man corp and being in an NPC corp are entirely different play styles with real in-game differences simply because you wish to ignore the point will not change the fact that you are saying, 'if you want to post you must play EVE as i tell you to because Im selfish and want it that way".


There is no such thing as an NPC play style unless you find role playing as a belt/mission/site rat to be a play style.

Nothing is confusing me here you're trying to insist that this change is somehow destroying a play style when it isn't.


Role playing?

So i can be wardeced as an NPC player?

So i can shoot another NPC player in my corp without consequence in highsec?

There are very REAL differences between NPC and PC corp game play; NPC game play is not simply some hollow title with no real in-game consequences.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#912 - 2014-07-21 20:05:04 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

Yep we've already been over this not all alts are trolls but, enough are that this change is worth doing. I encourage you to read the thread and post in a coherent manner.

No, you assert enough are. Others in this thread assert that enough Goons are trolls all the CFC should be banned from the forums. It's all a matter of perspective. I see more troll and bad posts by members of large coalitions than I do of NPC corps, you are deliberately looking for troll posts from NPC corps to back your argument so obviously you see more of those.

However your basic premise is flawed. Because Alts that never undock are never at risk regardless of if they are in a player corp or NPC corp. The status of the corp makes no difference, it's if they undock. And as soon as they undock they are at risk so if you don't like their posting you can kill them regardless of what corp they are in.

So stopping posting based on corp is nothing to do with risk, it's all to do with shutting down people who might oppose you in a forum thread.


No this has already been hashed over your, blatant denial of reality makes no difference. If you wish to continue to go over the point read the thread for what has been said about it and raise a new cogent point or move on to the next topic. Goonspiracy won't help your cause and you aren't worth speaking to until you stop being a reality denier.

For the 100th time yes some non-abusers will unfortunately be affected by this, such was the case with CAOD before the restrictions and CCP found that it would do more good than harm to institute the restrictions then; the same can be said for now.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#913 - 2014-07-21 20:08:26 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

Role playing?

So i can be wardeced as an NPC player?

So i can shoot another NPC player in my corp without consequence in highsec?

There are very REAL differences between NPC and PC corp game play; NPC game play is not simply some hollow title with no real in-game consequences.


So you admit there is no NPC play style?

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#914 - 2014-07-21 20:24:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Frostys Virpio
La Nariz wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

You are trying to "nerf" NPC corps by using the excuse of the forums. If you want to change how in game NPC corps are working, ask for change in game. If you want the design of an in game feature to be modified, ask for in-game change to it, not out of game rules to be changed.

Not all NPC character are trolling. NPC player can be killed by following the in game rules to do so. If you want those in game rules to be changed, then ask for change to those rules, not the ones for the forum.

Your idea makes no sense as long as you cannot prove every NPC character is an alt created for trolling.

If you want NPC corps to be nerfed, ask for nerfs to in game NPC corps.

If you want to get rid of forum trolls, ask for CCP to enforce their own forum rules. Enforcing good moderation rules can rid you of trolls. You know this very well and it has the benefit of not stepping on anyone's toes for a false labeling by association.


No if you had read the OP my concern is forum quality I don't have a preference either way for NPC corporations. Again we've already been over this before if you read the thread you would know. The change does more good than harm and it is unfortunate that some non-trolls will be affected by this change much like it was unfortunate some non-abusers were affected by the drone assist changes.


Can you prove it does more harm than good or is it a "statistic" you pulled out of your ass? Can you provide stats on what % of the NPC corp members are actually trolls compared to the number who would get gagged by your rules who just happen to be legitimate players not interested in what player corp provide different from NPC ones? I skimmed through the thread and I am pretty sure you were never able to roovide such data which should be the basis of your argument why the colateral damage is not too large.

Notice how CCP didn't just disable drone assist to solve the problem? They didn't slam the thing completely down but instead went for an approach to affaect the problematic behavior the most while letting most reasonable use workable? Where is your reasonable case for NPC player? Could they be provided an out of game way to prove their worth to use an out of game feature or do you think it is reasonable to ask them to change how they play the game just so they can use the out of game communication tool?

EDIT : Remember that you are barring them from generic places such as General discussion which should not be discussing affiliation or anything related. It's just general discussion about the game.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#915 - 2014-07-21 20:27:58 UTC
La Nariz wrote:


For the 100th time yes some non-abusers will unfortunately be affected by this, such was the case with CAOD before the restrictions and CCP found that it would do more good than harm to institute the restrictions then; the same can be said for now.


It amde sense to remove non affiliated character from CAOD because it's CAOD. What reason do you have to remove some people from General discussion?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#916 - 2014-07-21 20:39:57 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
La Nariz wrote:


For the 100th time yes some non-abusers will unfortunately be affected by this, such was the case with CAOD before the restrictions and CCP found that it would do more good than harm to institute the restrictions then; the same can be said for now.


It amde sense to remove non affiliated character from CAOD because it's CAOD. What reason do you have to remove some people from General discussion?


They are trolling it to the point its degrading the forum's quality that's the reason much like everything else you're attempting to rehash it's in the OP.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#917 - 2014-07-21 20:40:24 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

Role playing?

So i can be wardeced as an NPC player?

So i can shoot another NPC player in my corp without consequence in highsec?

There are very REAL differences between NPC and PC corp game play; NPC game play is not simply some hollow title with no real in-game consequences.


So you admit there is no NPC play style?


Now you are just trolling.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#918 - 2014-07-21 20:47:39 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
La Nariz wrote:


For the 100th time yes some non-abusers will unfortunately be affected by this, such was the case with CAOD before the restrictions and CCP found that it would do more good than harm to institute the restrictions then; the same can be said for now.


It amde sense to remove non affiliated character from CAOD because it's CAOD. What reason do you have to remove some people from General discussion?


They are trolling it to the point its degrading the forum's quality that's the reason much like everything else you're attempting to rehash it's in the OP.


Player corp are also trolling it into a shithole so shifting the responsibility on a single side of the problem is not a solution. Actually applying the current rules already in place would fix every single sub forum of the problem you want to fix without having any collateral damage to any of CCP's clients. Why aren't you asking for this instead? The rules are already there and removal of posting privilege is something CCP can do according to their own rules. As soon as tey start removing them from the account of any trolls they find, there won't be any need for special rules based on in game affiliation.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#919 - 2014-07-21 21:10:02 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

Drone assist was being abused so everyone playing the game is prohibited from doing it. This is not a subset of EVE's population, people with brown hair, yep applies to them, people in huge alliances, yep applies to them, people with creepy whiteout eyes, yep applies to them.

Your idea does not apply to the entire EVE playing population but rather only a subset that belongs to NPC corps.

You are equating two non-equal concepts and coming to the conclusion that apples are oranges.


Drone assist was being abused by a specific nullsec coalition to the point it was warping nullsec warfare. That coalition is also a subset of the entire population of EVE. The solo mission runner in their dominix was not abusing this mechanic but was also affected by it. This is the same case for the suggestion I have proposed, a specific subset of the population is abusing a mechanic to the point its degrading the forum quality. So a change is enacted to prevent that and affects the abusers but also unfortunately affects the non-abusers.

Answer this, if an eve coalition is not a subset of the population of EVE what is it?


The ONLY people adversely affected by the elimination of the drone exploit were exploiters, no other players suffered from the change. Your proposal adversely affects people that are playing by the rules, HUGE DIFFERENCE!

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#920 - 2014-07-21 21:14:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Sara Tosa
La Nariz wrote:
Sara Tosa wrote:

trolling is not related to posting as an alt.
this thread regards only putting limits to posting as an alt.
trolling is already prohibited by EULA so it dont require any other restriction.
your idea "posting as an alt equals trolling per-se" is just voices in your head.


Yep we've already been over this not all alts are trolls but, enough are that this change is worth doing. I encourage you to read the thread and post in a coherent manner.

no change is worth doing if it overlaps a rule already enforced and just punish people assuming that "they could be bad, just because I dont like them".
people should be punished because something they are doing, not because of what they think, how they express it , how they look or their corporation.
basically you want to implement the forum equivalent of a racial law.
what next, lets banish jews?