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Restrict NPC Corporation Posting Abilities.

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Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#881 - 2014-07-21 03:16:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

Its the same situation, not every drone user or tech moon owner was abusing it but, the change affected all of them. Perhaps you should organize all of the npc corporation members and attempt to clean up the npc corporation image.


Drone assist was being abused so everyone playing the game is prohibited from doing it. This is not a subset of EVE's population, people with brown hair, yep applies to them, people in huge alliances, yep applies to them, people with creepy whiteout eyes, yep applies to them.

Your idea does not apply to the entire EVE playing population but rather only a subset that belongs to NPC corps.

You are equating two non-equal concepts and coming to the conclusion that apples are oranges.


Uh, nope.

Everyone in EVE, even those people with mains in player corps, would be forbidden by this from using NPC alts to post with. That is because everyone in EVE has access to the ability to create an NPC alt, we all have three character slots.

Drone assist was nerfed even for people like me, who did not use it. It did not effect me, it effected a subset of EVE's population. But it was the right thing to do anyway, because the people who did use it, abused it beyond measure for their size of the population.


I see your point but let me restate my point another way, the drone abuse was a game mechanic that benefited those that used it in such a way as to harm the game fundamentally (CCPs opinion, not mine). Getting rid of the exploit benefited ALL of us that played the game fairly.

The OPs suggestion does not benefit ALL of us; it actually strips NPC players of rights. It assumes guilt by association, punishes that assumed guilt and only punishes a subset of the game playing populace (since though we could choose not to, most of us are probably in a PC corp).

Not only that but it surely has a negative impact on player chose in game (as playing NPC means you cannot voice your opinions on most forums) as well as removing vital opinions of non-trolling NPC players.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#882 - 2014-07-21 03:37:14 UTC
Getting rid of NPC trolls helps everyone. Not having the game's official forums be a toxic trollpit every time some people roll up new alts would help a great deal with the game's reputation, for starters.

All of us here that enjoy legitimate discourse are tarnished by the abuse of NPC forum alts on a daily basis. We all stand to benefit, as does the game itself, if this particular abuse is dealt with.

And as for any negative effects, this is very easily circumvented. Anyone who wants legitimate discussion will easily be able to obtain it. It's a very small barrier to entry, that does not even apply to a whole bunch of forums (meaning new players can still ask questions and weigh in on stickies) but one that is proven to work.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#883 - 2014-07-21 06:11:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Getting rid of NPC trolls helps everyone. Not having the game's official forums be a toxic trollpit every time some people roll up new alts would help a great deal with the game's reputation, for starters.

All of us here that enjoy legitimate discourse are tarnished by the abuse of NPC forum alts on a daily basis. We all stand to benefit, as does the game itself, if this particular abuse is dealt with.

And as for any negative effects, this is very easily circumvented. Anyone who wants legitimate discussion will easily be able to obtain it. It's a very small barrier to entry, that does not even apply to a whole bunch of forums (meaning new players can still ask questions and weigh in on stickies) but one that is proven to work.

How about we just enforce the rules on trolling in general, since it's already against the rules.
It's not 'NPC Trolls' that are the problem.
It's 'Trolls' in general, and it's already against the rules.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#884 - 2014-07-21 06:21:14 UTC
Ounce of prevention, pound of cure and all that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#885 - 2014-07-21 10:14:13 UTC  |  Edited by: admiral root
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
And those people are at risk regardless of what corp they are in, which was my point. It doesn't matter what corp someone is in.
If they undock they are at risk. If they don't undock they aren't at risk.

The Undocking is what provides the risk, not the corp they are in.


Thanks for showing that you don't know what you're talking about. You can't awox an NPC without Concord interfering and you can't wardec an NPC corp. The permanent absence of those risks to NPCs means that they are safer than real players in player-run corps. If they weren't, they wouldn't pay the measly 11% tax for these very protections.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#886 - 2014-07-21 15:15:04 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

Drone assist was being abused so everyone playing the game is prohibited from doing it. This is not a subset of EVE's population, people with brown hair, yep applies to them, people in huge alliances, yep applies to them, people with creepy whiteout eyes, yep applies to them.

Your idea does not apply to the entire EVE playing population but rather only a subset that belongs to NPC corps.

You are equating two non-equal concepts and coming to the conclusion that apples are oranges.


Drone assist was being abused by a specific nullsec coalition to the point it was warping nullsec warfare. That coalition is also a subset of the entire population of EVE. The solo mission runner in their dominix was not abusing this mechanic but was also affected by it. This is the same case for the suggestion I have proposed, a specific subset of the population is abusing a mechanic to the point its degrading the forum quality. So a change is enacted to prevent that and affects the abusers but also unfortunately affects the non-abusers.

Answer this, if an eve coalition is not a subset of the population of EVE what is it?

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#887 - 2014-07-21 15:25:40 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:


1. I should have said but didnt that I meant NPC solo game play (yes i belong to a solo corp but i was an NPC poster for months before making my 1 man corp and your idea would have kept me from posting where i chose to post all that time).

2. Since guilty be association and punishment without cause is something you so strongly believe in, I shall now utilize those same concepts myself:

From now, on since i have personally seen a significant number of troll posts from your alliance, your entire alliance is now and; forevermore, prohibited from posting on the forums.


1. Okay so now you must get or join 9 other people that also want to play solo.

2. Are all CCP nerfs guilty by association because from what you are saying anything CCP does that is a nerf is a guilty by association thing? It isn't a guilty by association thing its fixing a broken mechanic.

That sounds like an argument from spite here man you don't have anything other that "I don't like this suggestion" so now you're going off on hyperbolic tangents.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#888 - 2014-07-21 15:46:44 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
[u]E: All of you posting about play style please remember faceless NPC alt troll is not a play style its a forum rule/EULA/TOS violation.


Being in a NPC corp in game IS a playstyle. Why should those players lose their posting previlege. Why are they automatically labeled as trolls with your new set of rules?

I am not talking about an ALT in a NPC corp just created to troll/**** post. I am talking about a player playing from the NPC corp because that's how he want to play. How can you label him as a troll before he even opened the forum? Why is he automatically a **** posters? It is totally your right to consider this guy's opinion as meaningless and irrelevenant but what make your opinion on him a valid one for CCP.

CCP probably want to get rid of the useless **** post made by troll alt no matter if they are in NPC corp or large alliance. What they most likely also don't want to do is silence legitimate costumer just because they happen to enjoy a playstyle different from the "space relevant" players.

TLDR : Not all character in NPC corps are troll alts. Why do you want to cut those player's posting privilege?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#889 - 2014-07-21 15:53:47 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Frostys Virpio wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
E: All of you posting about play style please remember faceless NPC alt troll is not a play style its a forum rule/EULA/TOS violation.


Being in a NPC corp in game IS a playstyle. Why should those players lose their posting previlege. Why are they automatically labeled as trolls with your new set of rules?

I am not talking about an ALT in a NPC corp just created to troll/**** post. I am talking about a player playing from the NPC corp because that's how he want to play. How can you label him as a troll before he even opened the forum? Why is he automatically a **** posters? It is totally your right to consider this guy's opinion as meaningless and irrelevenant but what make your opinion on him a valid one for CCP.

CCP probably want to get rid of the useless **** post made by troll alt no matter if they are in NPC corp or large alliance. What they most likely also don't want to do is silence legitimate costumer just because they happen to enjoy a playstyle different from the "space relevant" players.

TLDR : Not all character in NPC corps are troll alts. Why do you want to cut those player's posting privilege?


Quote the whole thing:

The OP wrote:
E: All of you posting about play style please remember faceless NPC alt troll is not a play style its a forum rule/EULA/TOS violation.
[u]"but, but, but, I don't have a point but want to insist this is a play style!" No it really isn't read the forum rules:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Forum_rules


Yes it applies and you haven't brought up anything new.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#890 - 2014-07-21 16:02:49 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
E: All of you posting about play style please remember faceless NPC alt troll is not a play style its a forum rule/EULA/TOS violation.


Being in a NPC corp in game IS a playstyle. Why should those players lose their posting previlege. Why are they automatically labeled as trolls with your new set of rules?

I am not talking about an ALT in a NPC corp just created to troll/**** post. I am talking about a player playing from the NPC corp because that's how he want to play. How can you label him as a troll before he even opened the forum? Why is he automatically a **** posters? It is totally your right to consider this guy's opinion as meaningless and irrelevenant but what make your opinion on him a valid one for CCP.

CCP probably want to get rid of the useless **** post made by troll alt no matter if they are in NPC corp or large alliance. What they most likely also don't want to do is silence legitimate costumer just because they happen to enjoy a playstyle different from the "space relevant" players.

TLDR : Not all character in NPC corps are troll alts. Why do you want to cut those player's posting privilege?


Quote the whole thing:

The OP wrote:
E: All of you posting about play style please remember faceless NPC alt troll is not a play style its a forum rule/EULA/TOS violation.
[u]"but, but, but, I don't have a point but want to insist this is a play style!" No it really isn't read the forum rules:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Forum_rules


Yes it applies and you haven't brought up anything new.


I am all for the NPC troll alt to have his posting rights be curb stomped as much as you wish. I want to know what the actual NPC corp PLAYER is supposed to do. Do you consider normal for HIS posting rights to be removed because a bunch of tards decided to troll from there?

The guy who plays in a NPC corp. Not Joe schmoe's in whatever corp/alliance creating an alt for the purpose of trolling. The very player in a NPC corp who is there for whatever reasons he see fit except if it is for trolling. Why does HE gets his rights cut?

Stop telling me it applies because your post is about NPC trolling alts. I mean the NPC PLAYER. He might be a troll but he might not be just like any other posters here no matter what their corp/alliance tag is.
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#891 - 2014-07-21 16:34:39 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

Quote the whole thing:

The OP wrote:
E: All of you posting about play style please remember faceless NPC alt troll is not a play style its a forum rule/EULA/TOS violation.
"but, but, but, I don't have a point but want to insist this is a play style!" No it really isn't read the forum rules:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Forum_rules


Yes it applies and you haven't brought up anything new.

which is wrong, is an eula violation only on some specific channels like character-bazaar (you must post as the character you want to sell so everybody can check it) and caod for self-evident reasons.
there's no other limitation to post as an alt in any way in EULA.
distorting and misrepresenting EULA _IS_ an EULA violation.
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#892 - 2014-07-21 16:35:27 UTC
(sorry double post)
Rita May
State War Academy
Caldari State
#893 - 2014-07-21 16:53:06 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

I'm pretty sure being able to string a thought together gives me the right to think but, that's some deep philosophy stuff that's uninvolved with this thread.

On topic one of the things the game is about is consequences and there should be consequences for your actions on the in-game forum. Why do you think you should be free of the consequences from your actions on one of the game's medium? You could find some like-minded players, such as friends you make in-game, and form a corporation with them. Then assuming the suggestion happens you'd have free reign on the forums.

As another reason for the suggestion, NPC corporation posting alts are causing the forum quality to go down. This change aims to be part of a solution to that.


so, you being in a player corp qualifies you to judge NPC corp members intentions when posting and the quality of their posts, interesting.

i am a npc corp forum alt with a main char in a player corp for reasons i don't have to justify to you.
so to your OP: no.

fly save.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#894 - 2014-07-21 17:57:34 UTC
Sara Tosa wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

Quote the whole thing:

The OP wrote:
E: All of you posting about play style please remember faceless NPC alt troll is not a play style its a forum rule/EULA/TOS violation.
"but, but, but, I don't have a point but want to insist this is a play style!" No it really isn't read the forum rules:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Forum_rules


Yes it applies and you haven't brought up anything new.

which is wrong, is an eula violation only on some specific channels like character-bazaar (you must post as the character you want to sell so everybody can check it) and caod for self-evident reasons.
there's no other limitation to post as an alt in any way in EULA.
distorting and misrepresenting EULA _IS_ an EULA violation.


No that's true trolling is an EULA violation not a play style. If any of that EULA is unclear you need to petition and ask the GMs to clarify it for you.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#895 - 2014-07-21 17:59:21 UTC
Rita May wrote:

so, you being in a player corp qualifies you to judge NPC corp members intentions when posting and the quality of their posts, interesting.

i am a npc corp forum alt with a main char in a player corp for reasons i don't have to justify to you.
so to your OP: no.

fly save.


CCP asked how to improve the forums because they felt the quality was low. I proposed part of a solution and you have to raise a point if you want any sort of debate. You are not helping the pro-npc posting side of this debate with that poor quality post.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#896 - 2014-07-21 18:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaari Inkuran
La Nariz wrote:
Rita May wrote:

so, you being in a player corp qualifies you to judge NPC corp members intentions when posting and the quality of their posts, interesting.

i am a npc corp forum alt with a main char in a player corp for reasons i don't have to justify to you.
so to your OP: no.

fly save.


CCP asked how to improve the forums because they felt the quality was low.

This is news to me and the first Ive seen it mentioned.

Edit: Yeah I'd be interested in where this happened and interested in getting a link. Oh and, there's nothing wrong with the quality of his post, maybe you'd like to elaborate.
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#897 - 2014-07-21 18:25:40 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Sara Tosa wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

Quote the whole thing:

The OP wrote:
E: All of you posting about play style please remember faceless NPC alt troll is not a play style its a forum rule/EULA/TOS violation.
"but, but, but, I don't have a point but want to insist this is a play style!" No it really isn't read the forum rules:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Forum_rules


Yes it applies and you haven't brought up anything new.

which is wrong, is an eula violation only on some specific channels like character-bazaar (you must post as the character you want to sell so everybody can check it) and caod for self-evident reasons.
there's no other limitation to post as an alt in any way in EULA.
distorting and misrepresenting EULA _IS_ an EULA violation.


No that's true trolling is an EULA violation not a play style. If any of that EULA is unclear you need to petition and ask the GMs to clarify it for you.

trolling is not related to posting as an alt.
this thread regards only putting limits to posting as an alt.
trolling is already prohibited by EULA so it dont require any other restriction.
your idea "posting as an alt equals trolling per-se" is just voices in your head.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#898 - 2014-07-21 18:52:25 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Rita May wrote:

so, you being in a player corp qualifies you to judge NPC corp members intentions when posting and the quality of their posts, interesting.

i am a npc corp forum alt with a main char in a player corp for reasons i don't have to justify to you.
so to your OP: no.

fly save.


CCP asked how to improve the forums because they felt the quality was low.

This is news to me and the first Ive seen it mentioned.

Edit: Yeah I'd be interested in where this happened and interested in getting a link. Oh and, there's nothing wrong with the quality of his post, maybe you'd like to elaborate.


It happened at a fanfest presentation or a dev blog one of the two then there was a big forum brainstorming thread in GD. You can go find the link yourself, until you convince me otherwise you are not worth the effort because you are not interested in debating the topic.

Why that post is bad:
-Hard to read, no capitalization, punctuation or grammar. English isn't my first language or second and I'm doing better than that guy.
-No point brought up just wild gesticulation.
-Arguing from emotion.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#899 - 2014-07-21 18:53:47 UTC
Sara Tosa wrote:

trolling is not related to posting as an alt.
this thread regards only putting limits to posting as an alt.
trolling is already prohibited by EULA so it dont require any other restriction.
your idea "posting as an alt equals trolling per-se" is just voices in your head.


Yep we've already been over this not all alts are trolls but, enough are that this change is worth doing. I encourage you to read the thread and post in a coherent manner.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#900 - 2014-07-21 18:56:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Getting rid of NPC trolls helps everyone. Not having the game's official forums be a toxic trollpit every time some people roll up new alts would help a great deal with the game's reputation, for starters.

All of us here that enjoy legitimate discourse are tarnished by the abuse of NPC forum alts on a daily basis. We all stand to benefit, as does the game itself, if this particular abuse is dealt with.

And as for any negative effects, this is very easily circumvented. Anyone who wants legitimate discussion will easily be able to obtain it. It's a very small barrier to entry, that does not even apply to a whole bunch of forums (meaning new players can still ask questions and weigh in on stickies) but one that is proven to work.


You are casually tossing aside some peoples chosen form of game play simply because you dont care about it. What if the NPC players said lets get rid of PC corp trolls by making so nobody can post unless they are in an NPC corp, sounds stupid because it is.

Edit: missing word added that was inadvertently left out, the basic content of the post is unchanged.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.