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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Changes to SOV , Power Projection & Nullsec Stagnation

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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#881 - 2014-07-20 22:30:09 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
Callduron wrote:

Not only is it content for only a very few people but it's more or less pvp free. Occasionally a blockade runner might get caught on a gate but generally logistics is done without generating any pvp content at all. Eve is meant to be a game where the economics feeds conflict but this huge economy of renters and moon goo exists while rarely generating content.


Without picking at rest of your post (which is pretty ok in general) I will have to point out that if you want to kill someone and that someone does not want to get killed it is also a pvp. If no shots are fired it just means the other guy is winning.


Agreed, a point I have tried to make many times myself...
Dhaq
Doomheim
#882 - 2014-07-21 00:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Dhaq
Skia Aumer wrote:

EVE is more than a game. Why do you think people like The Mittani play it? Not to shoot red crosses for sure, so why? Cause in EVE we have a huge social experiment and it's amazingly interesting to watch it evolves. And guess what? In merely several years we've managed to repeat the history of the mankind from the Age of Discovery to the present. Dont you see the analogy between the current real life political map and EVE sov map? The forum dosnt allow for RL political discussion, so I'm not going into details. But seriously, the two worlds have very much in common. And the thing is - if we keep this frightfully accurate model (which is EVE) running for some time more, we have a chance to look into the future if our RL world.

Call me a madman, but if there's a 1% chance this time machine will work, then it's worth trying.
But if they change the rules, for the sake of "fun" or whatever, the precious model can get broken, and EVE turns into a mere game.


This is unfortunately accurate. Part of me doesn't want anything to change just so we can see how things would play out. It like looking into a little snow globe where one EVE year is equal 200 RL years. It is pretty awesome to see it unfold. Mankind's future hangs in the balance on what happens within the next year in New Eden. Woe to us if the major blocs merge to form one.

History is written in the systems of EVE.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#883 - 2014-07-21 00:52:12 UTC
I don't think progodlegend will approve of any unity government with us dirty blobbers

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#884 - 2014-07-21 06:33:10 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

This is a pretty great solution: garbage space and collecting a ton of it then renting it out


Would it be better with tons of good space and then renting it out? In my opinion - no. The quality of space in itself is of secondary concern although it contributes to the current situation in that regard that no one but some n00b renters does not want to live in there. Established players can get better or more convinient income by farming FW or Incursions. Other than the few that are farming anoms in their smart-bombing motherships in select few systems.

A note about NPC null sec. With all the boosts to empire low sec it is slowly turning into the "low sec without boosts but with bubbles and bombs". Same boosts that have been applied to regular low sec should be applied there as well.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#885 - 2014-07-21 07:09:21 UTC
Yeah, gotta say it's time for a blue F&I sticky. Everyone is disenchanted about sov and the discussion will not be productive for long. It has all been said too many times with bugger all actually done about it.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Anthar Thebess
#886 - 2014-07-21 07:13:57 UTC
But can you provide me something that will help me keep my friends in game.
Now they just saying - why do you even play , for next 1 and a half year NOTHING WILL CHANGE - and even then this will be again changes made by CCP , not players. This will be again bugged ...

Just a reason why ...

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#887 - 2014-07-21 07:40:49 UTC
I posted a simple idea in another thread along these lines. How about simply removing sov structures and making system control actually come from controlling the system with players and ships? Perhaps gate control system plexes similar to FW plexes could be used to provide a corp governance over a gate. Control all gates and you control the system. Make it a plex like a deaspace plex and aggressors then need to fight their way through defenses (and can in turn defend their rearguard) to gain control. In addition some kind of structure or module would be required to prevent forces bridging into a system. Make them fight their way in with beachheads at gates etc. Spread the combat across multiple fleets hitting several gates to spread TiDi. Just a few ideas...
Anthar Thebess
#888 - 2014-07-21 07:53:53 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I posted a simple idea in another thread along these lines. How about simply removing sov structures and making system control actually come from controlling the system with players and ships? Perhaps gate control system plexes similar to FW plexes could be used to provide a corp governance over a gate. Control all gates and you control the system. Make it a plex like a deaspace plex and aggressors then need to fight their way through defenses (and can in turn defend their rearguard) to gain control. In addition some kind of structure or module would be required to prevent forces bridging into a system. Make them fight their way in with beachheads at gates etc. Spread the combat across multiple fleets hitting several gates to spread TiDi. Just a few ideas...


Sorry nothing will change for next 17 months.
CCP Please tell me if i'm wrong.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#889 - 2014-07-21 07:58:14 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Yeah, gotta say it's time for a blue F&I sticky. Everyone is disenchanted about sov and the discussion will not be productive for long. It has all been said too many times with bugger all actually done about it.



Crius is a big first step to redoing nullsec. They have to attack the industry side first before they hit power projection and sov.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Arknos III
Doomheim
#890 - 2014-07-21 07:58:30 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I posted a simple idea in another thread along these lines. How about simply removing sov structures and making system control actually come from controlling the system with players and ships? Perhaps gate control system plexes similar to FW plexes could be used to provide a corp governance over a gate. Control all gates and you control the system. Make it a plex like a deaspace plex and aggressors then need to fight their way through defenses (and can in turn defend their rearguard) to gain control. In addition some kind of structure or module would be required to prevent forces bridging into a system. Make them fight their way in with beachheads at gates etc. Spread the combat across multiple fleets hitting several gates to spread TiDi. Just a few ideas...


Sorry nothing will change for next 17 months.
CCP Please tell me if i'm wrong.

It's unfortunate but we have to accept that. There are a lot of issues in the game as important as SOV that need addressing. For instance the anti-social culture in highsec likely causes more boredom and subscription losses than the annoying SOV mechanics.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#891 - 2014-07-21 08:15:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Arknos III wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I posted a simple idea in another thread along these lines. How about simply removing sov structures and making system control actually come from controlling the system with players and ships? Perhaps gate control system plexes similar to FW plexes could be used to provide a corp governance over a gate. Control all gates and you control the system. Make it a plex like a deaspace plex and aggressors then need to fight their way through defenses (and can in turn defend their rearguard) to gain control. In addition some kind of structure or module would be required to prevent forces bridging into a system. Make them fight their way in with beachheads at gates etc. Spread the combat across multiple fleets hitting several gates to spread TiDi. Just a few ideas...


Sorry nothing will change for next 17 months.
CCP Please tell me if i'm wrong.

It's unfortunate but we have to accept that. There are a lot of issues in the game as important as SOV that need addressing. For instance the anti-social culture in highsec likely causes more boredom and subscription losses than the annoying SOV mechanics.


And how do you suggest, CCP should resolve the "anti-social culture" in High sec? It's not like they are doing anything to improve that with Crius; in fact, they make it worse. Blink And to be quite frank: Everything that forces encourages people into more cooperation without any benefits and only increased risk (or in my case even if there were more benefits), is only going to drive people away instead of making them engage in more cooperation. There is already a great deal of cooperation possible, if players desire to do that; forcing encouraging then to cooperate more against their will is a poor approach.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#892 - 2014-07-21 08:22:17 UTC
Arknos III wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I posted a simple idea in another thread along these lines. How about simply removing sov structures and making system control actually come from controlling the system with players and ships? Perhaps gate control system plexes similar to FW plexes could be used to provide a corp governance over a gate. Control all gates and you control the system. Make it a plex like a deaspace plex and aggressors then need to fight their way through defenses (and can in turn defend their rearguard) to gain control. In addition some kind of structure or module would be required to prevent forces bridging into a system. Make them fight their way in with beachheads at gates etc. Spread the combat across multiple fleets hitting several gates to spread TiDi. Just a few ideas...


Sorry nothing will change for next 17 months.
CCP Please tell me if i'm wrong.

It's unfortunate but we have to accept that. There are a lot of issues in the game as important as SOV that need addressing. For instance the anti-social culture in highsec likely causes more boredom and subscription losses than the annoying SOV mechanics.


I have to say that I don't find hisec to be anti-social. I often end up chatting with those I'm competing with for sites etc. I find the idea of being one of the major sov holders renter ***** far more anti-social (unless anybody believes that extortion and absolute control are pleasant behaviour?). I also thought that it was an 80/20 split between hisec/losec/WH folks and nullsec. I would think that statistic shows much more where people currently prefer to be...
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#893 - 2014-07-21 08:40:13 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Yeah, gotta say it's time for a blue F&I sticky. Everyone is disenchanted about sov and the discussion will not be productive for long. It has all been said too many times with bugger all actually done about it.



Crius is a big first step to redoing nullsec. They have to attack the industry side first before they hit power projection and sov.

Yes, I agree. Crius is released tomorrow and invention will be dealt with subsequently. If power projection and sov is next it is surely time to start talking about it.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Anthar Thebess
#894 - 2014-07-21 08:44:04 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Yeah, gotta say it's time for a blue F&I sticky. Everyone is disenchanted about sov and the discussion will not be productive for long. It has all been said too many times with bugger all actually done about it.

Crius is a big first step to redoing nullsec. They have to attack the industry side first before they hit power projection and sov.


Sorry , but this is not a reason why people should keep play eve , for next 17 or more months.
People are asking for :
- fixing sov
- power projection
- bridging

I ask simple question :
" WHY people should keep playing until current issues are fixed ?"

I'm just saying CCP give us reason.
People are angry , people are leaving.
You cannot say "we will try to fix those issues within 2 years"
2 years is a lot of time.

Half of a year is a lot of time.
CCP needs to find a way to fix at least some issues , without this it will just bleed more and more players.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#895 - 2014-07-21 08:48:53 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Yeah, gotta say it's time for a blue F&I sticky. Everyone is disenchanted about sov and the discussion will not be productive for long. It has all been said too many times with bugger all actually done about it.

Crius is a big first step to redoing nullsec. They have to attack the industry side first before they hit power projection and sov.


Sorry , but this is not a reason why people should keep play eve , for next 17 or more months.
People are asking for :
- fixing sov
- power projection
- bridging

I ask simple question :
" WHY people should keep playing until current issues are fixed ?"

I'm just saying CCP give us reason.
People are angry , people are leaving.
You cannot say "we will try to fix those issues within 2 years"
2 years is a lot of time.

Half of a year is a lot of time.
CCP needs to find a way to fix at least some issues , without this it will just bleed more and more players.

I think that CCP engaging seriously about upcoming changes WILL stop a lot of people leaving. Seeing the 'light at the end of the tunnel' will help.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Davader
Space Cleaners
The Gorgon Empire
#896 - 2014-07-21 09:04:24 UTC
Absolutely support ideas of first two posts.
Anthar Thebess
#897 - 2014-07-21 09:15:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Zappity wrote:

I think that CCP engaging seriously about upcoming changes WILL stop a lot of people leaving. Seeing the 'light at the end of the tunnel' will help.


We are talking about commitment from CCP side.
Something that we will not get.
Or a time line where we have what will be changed/fixed.
Something again we will not get.

We have a lot of ideas, some of those ideas are not changing for years.
Some of hem are pointing and addressing the same issues.
But we are talking about YEARS of waiting , for issues addressed to CCP for YEARS.
For YEARS people hoped that something change , and for YEARS people didn't get what they asked for.
Now from Manfred - not CCP , but from person in PL - we hear, that something can change within 17 months.
We can assume that this is info leaked from CSM.

This is NOT a proper way to do any communication to a customers.
Right now this information is a "silver bullet" for EVE.

What people are getting is :
" You need to just wait 2 more years , to see if something will really change "

Now ask yourself - will people pay for next two years for a HOPE that something will finally change?

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Okropniak
Zabijaki i Pijaki
The Minions.
#898 - 2014-07-21 13:12:52 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Zappity wrote:

I think that CCP engaging seriously about upcoming changes WILL stop a lot of people leaving. Seeing the 'light at the end of the tunnel' will help.

What people are getting is :
" You need to just wait 2 more years , to see if something will really change "
Now ask yourself - will people pay for next two years for a HOPE that something will finally change?


For me answer is quite simple - I wont pay, just waiting for sub end.
Hope CCP fix what's broken, or some other game worth to pay for it appear and we'll meet there :)
o7
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#899 - 2014-07-21 14:07:05 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
We are talking about commitment from CCP side.
...snipped...
Now ask yourself - will people pay for next two years for a HOPE that something will finally change?

Considering these changes mostly affect nullsec so one can imagine most if not all of your suggested account cancellations would come from that set and taking the assumption that nullsec is (almost) split in two it would seem likely that less than 10% (half of nullsec) would unsub. I suspect it would be significantly less than that but even at 10% CCP could weather that. If they change the system to make it more fun they'd get a lot more people resubbing and also joining the game.

So, whilst the wait might look bleak and you might want the changes sooner I don't think it'll actually be as much of an impact on the company or game as you think it will be.

I for one am having plenty of fights and fun in null so I'm happy to wait so they can get it right.
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#900 - 2014-07-21 16:43:27 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Yeah, gotta say it's time for a blue F&I sticky. Everyone is disenchanted about sov and the discussion will not be productive for long. It has all been said too many times with bugger all actually done about it.

Crius is a big first step to redoing nullsec. They have to attack the industry side first before they hit power projection and sov.


Sorry , but this is not a reason why people should keep play eve , for next 17 or more months.
People are asking for :
- fixing sov
- power projection
- bridging

I ask simple question :
" WHY people should keep playing until current issues are fixed ?"

I'm just saying CCP give us reason.
People are angry , people are leaving.
You cannot say "we will try to fix those issues within 2 years"
2 years is a lot of time.

Half of a year is a lot of time.
CCP needs to find a way to fix at least some issues , without this it will just bleed more and more players.

I think that CCP engaging seriously about upcoming changes WILL stop a lot of people leaving. Seeing the 'light at the end of the tunnel' will help.


I love this game and the community. There is no other game that can deliver what Eve Online can deliver. With that said yea the current state is stale as 5 day old bread. CCP saving grace is there is no other game that can deliver what Eve does.

To quote a friend "Phalanx III: Fоr thеse brіef 2-3 hours every 6 months.... There іs no bеtter game."

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny