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Dev Blog: Team Up: Industry Work Teams

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Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#721 - 2014-06-19 11:48:48 UTC
Another question; Will I be able to filter out teams to only show what teams are available in the systems my alliance holds space or what teams are available in the system I'm in?
Babbet Bunny
#722 - 2014-06-27 20:19:53 UTC
So adding a 4th market, free intel, and pay to win is good complexity?

The way the small guy use to do Industry PvP was by sourcing materials at the lowest price and selling his product for a high price. With the new system costing changes and requiring industry alts to grind standings or build in POS's there are significant changes to the industry playing field without teams.

Make teams something requiring player cooperation and not just pay to win.

Thank you,

BB
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#723 - 2014-06-27 22:55:58 UTC
Babbet Bunny wrote:
So adding a 4th market, free intel, and pay to win is good complexity?

The way the small guy use to do Industry PvP was by sourcing materials at the lowest price and selling his product for a high price. With the new system costing changes and requiring industry alts to grind standings or build in POS's there are significant changes to the industry playing field without teams.

Make teams something requiring player cooperation and not just pay to win.

Thank you,

BB




How do you plan to pay to win with teams? You think someone desperate enough to buy a dozen plex knows how to make a profit off this? If you weren't so daft you realize you could just leech someone else's bonuses. The small guy gets a powerful tool. The big guy gets a powerful tool. The only person who loses with teams is the stupid guy.
Babbet Bunny
#724 - 2014-06-28 03:44:36 UTC
I agree with you regarding high sec/ low sec Industry. So no one will buy team just chase them. I can see that working well.

In WH and null they have the monopoly and the isk to fund it. I do not see manufacturing in null coming back to high sec and competing on the market. Bulk alliance orders in Jita will probably go away. 120% refine plus -7% materials and then add on a -5% material team......

So the new build costs vary a lot in high sec. No one will be chasing the teams unless they have standings or a POS.

On the test server for a given build the install costs varied from 1.5m to 145m. The 1.5m systems were an unused industry hub with 9.5 standings, POS in a system with no station and a POS in a no industry station system. In a industry hub system the costs varied from 30m to 35m with POS or a 8.1 standing , respectively.

The highest cost was in system with a team available. 145m using the team saving a little time and ~7m materials. Without the team it was 134m as I had 0 standings.

Still don't think a 4th market is a good thing for adding game play.
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
#725 - 2014-06-28 09:01:48 UTC
"Currently, the same rules are used to generate teams regardless of where they are located. This change would make it so that teams created in Amarr space would be more likely to have specialties for armor or lasers, for instance."

This. It makes a lot of sense.

Do not run. We are your friends.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#726 - 2014-06-28 12:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Not sure what I am missing but I am unable to bid on teams up for auction.
It doesn't matter how much isk I enter into the "Enter amount", it stays greyed out
Travelling to the system the team up for auction is in makes no difference

Quote:
When placing a bid, the default location is the same system you’re in, but you can edit this to bid on a system remotely. A bid can be entered for any system, including wormhole systems. Bidding on behalf of a system that is far away requires a minimum initial bid. Teams have a home location when they are created and the minimum is higher the further away the team’s home is. This represents a relocation cost and gives a small amount of geographical differentiation without it being too stifling.

There is no indication as to what minimum bids are per jump from the teams "home".

I currently see 2 active teams that would be suitable (sort of) for the jobs I'd like to run, so others are obviously able to bid on teams.
What am I missing?

NB; I did post this in the test server feedback forums (over a week ago) but got no response.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Kingstontown
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#727 - 2014-06-28 15:25:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kingstontown
Liner Xiandra wrote:
No no no no.

This introduces way to many variables for producers.
- material price fluctuations
- player activity
- solar station count
- item baseprice fluctuations
- decryptor price fluctuations
- team availablity
- team rent

Some of these variables can be controlled, but all together these will put any pricing predictions up in the air; how am I to determine that whatever I am building, is not going to be sitting in my hanger for the next 2 months because market prices swung?



Ok, this is gonna be a gamechanger for me, and not for the better.

Currently I have a revenue of 75B per week, (there are bigger boys, but i consider this quite an achievement)

I do this with a total of 8 accounts, thus about 80 slots manu, 80 slots invention, 80 slots copying on 4 different types of arch products (not even considering the difference in races/subgroups) Run about 4 - 8 times a day making it over 400/500 jobs per day)

I have 4 posses, with all different equipment to make this process as efficient as possible, and I live in a busy system as I can do missioning/mining/teach noobs at the same time.

WIth these introduction I need to either change systems, to a lower populated one. Meaning I loose the interaction with my corpmates/alliance or I need to accept these higher costs, and micro manage my costs.

Micromanaging 400/500 jobs per day is just ridicolous, as jobs I start in the morning can be produced at different costs than in the evening. Also considering those teams, how many are there, are there enough to cope with my amount of production?

As the person I quoted said: There are tooo many variables now, and it just feels to artifical.

I will test this production for 1 month, if it doesn't work, I'm giving up my 8 accounts paid for per months, and just plex 1 account for the coming 10 years.

just my 2cents. I approve and like changes, I like the concept, but on a grand scale it become too unwieldy.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#728 - 2014-06-28 16:14:03 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
How is null sec industry going to be able to pull teams out to them? If a team does manage to move out to a 00 sov system, how do they affect long term manufacturing jobs, like titans? Can teams be applied to titans when a team only lasts 4 weeks? Will nullsec have special pirate teams available to them so they don't have a huge penalty to pulling a penirgman team all the way to XX-XXX system that is 50 jumps away? This "bidding system" that is talked about. Can it be done on corp/alliance scale or is it like fac war lp system upgrades in that we the individuals dump isk into a pot and that becomes the system's "bid" on a team? What happens to unsuccessful bids? If I bid on team best friends forever for 10billion isk, and it turns out the winning bid was 11, do I get my 10 billion isk bid back?


Job costs are calculated when the job is submitted. Nothing else matters once it's in the cooker. As long as the team is in your system when you hit apply, the team benefits will apply for the whole thing.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#729 - 2014-06-28 21:11:34 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Invention details PLEASE. Does the ME bonus apply to invention jobs? Does it reduce datacores required or does it boost the ME output of the copy?


Invention teams are coming later in a point release, so we haven't nailed down how they will work. They might work similar (or even replace) decryptors.

If that's the case, do you think you might have any plans to change data sites? I would love to see them shifted over to more of an isk-making profession like relic hunting. More BPCs and perhaps introduction of a chance for t2/high-tier PI materials dropping would be great.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#730 - 2014-06-30 02:57:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
so if i understand this correctly CCP wants to encourage longer jobs (build multiple ships) with reduced costs. However this only really works if you are using BPOs, right? I mean if i want to build 20 slicers i have 20x 1 run BPCs and run into the worst case scenario.

Are there any plans to be able to concatenate several BPCs into one long job? Otherwise i don't really see why the cost reduction based on job length is there in the first place. I bet most jobs are run from BPCs and not BPOs.

edit: damn wrong thread. i post it again into the manufacturing thread.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#731 - 2014-07-02 15:03:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mistah Ewedynao
This one facet of industry is pretty much what has made me decide to get out of it.

As I have said before, the sub drop is gonna be BIG.

This one smells like loot spew all over again....and no dev post or answers since page 15.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
Lee Hyori
New Horizons
#732 - 2014-07-07 22:16:30 UTC
Kingstontown wrote:
Liner Xiandra wrote:
No no no no.

This introduces way to many variables for producers.
- material price fluctuations
- player activity
- solar station count
- item baseprice fluctuations
- decryptor price fluctuations
- team availablity
- team rent

Some of these variables can be controlled, but all together these will put any pricing predictions up in the air; how am I to determine that whatever I am building, is not going to be sitting in my hanger for the next 2 months because market prices swung?



Ok, this is gonna be a gamechanger for me, and not for the better.

Currently I have a revenue of 75B per week, (there are bigger boys, but i consider this quite an achievement)

I do this with a total of 8 accounts, thus about 80 slots manu, 80 slots invention, 80 slots copying on 4 different types of arch products (not even considering the difference in races/subgroups) Run about 4 - 8 times a day making it over 400/500 jobs per day)

I have 4 posses, with all different equipment to make this process as efficient as possible, and I live in a busy system as I can do missioning/mining/teach noobs at the same time.

WIth these introduction I need to either change systems, to a lower populated one. Meaning I loose the interaction with my corpmates/alliance or I need to accept these higher costs, and micro manage my costs.

Micromanaging 400/500 jobs per day is just ridicolous, as jobs I start in the morning can be produced at different costs than in the evening. Also considering those teams, how many are there, are there enough to cope with my amount of production?

As the person I quoted said: There are tooo many variables now, and it just feels to artifical.

I will test this production for 1 month, if it doesn't work, I'm giving up my 8 accounts paid for per months, and just plex 1 account for the coming 10 years.

just my 2cents. I approve and like changes, I like the concept, but on a grand scale it become too unwieldy.


+1

I totally agree with this post.
And I would do the same thing with my 8 accounts ...
Zeera Tomb-Raider
Vega Farscape
#733 - 2014-07-09 04:50:54 UTC
This industry team thing must be ccp way to admit the utterly failure at making POS a better team experiance.Newer seen any forum tread asking for this feature,or any player in the game asking for it,I dont want it or need it,just 1 more thing to calculate for when it coms to normal production to, when it coms to cost vs income.Work on POS system and give pos better bonus or less cost to make people work more together,in sted of playing with NPC !!!
Lee Hyori
New Horizons
#734 - 2014-07-09 14:01:02 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Another question; Will I be able to filter out teams to only show what teams are available in the systems my alliance holds space or what teams are available in the system I'm in?


Well done!

It is in this way that the big conglomerates who control systems in LS/NS will have a key advantage over identical activities produced in HS.
Lee Hyori
New Horizons
#735 - 2014-07-09 14:18:24 UTC
How will we use the POS facilities with the new interface?

I would like to make a feedback on the experience but can't use them on SISI.

Does anyone has succeeded? Or is it simply impossible on the test server ...
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
#736 - 2014-07-20 05:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jacque Custeau
CCP could not just say that these teams are specialists who work in 30 day shifts and leave it at that. They had to create a very depressing back story where desperate under-privileged people have to consume mind altering drugs and suffer a complete mental and physical breakdown at the end of the 30 days. Its like the creative team goes out of its way to make the back-story depressing.

Also from reading the blog it seems a person will expend money to bring a team to a system, but once they arrive anyone in the system can use them. Really?
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#737 - 2014-07-20 08:30:42 UTC
A bit late at this point, but a route CCP could have taken was to make teams a consumable item.

It has been a while, but I remember during exploration and in missions, buildings would occasionally drop "live stock" items: exotic dancers of both sexes, janitors, homeless, scientists, tourists, etc. Well, instead of these magical and mystically traveling unseen teams affecting everything in their radius sphere this next patch will bring, teams could have been a consumable life stock item used when prints were queued for manufacturing or research.

These teams could be found as a base line variety on the market. But the "specialists" could have been found in a variety of ways ranging from exploration sites to a loyalty reward exchange in factional warfare to mission drops to rare rat loot. They could have been broken into the four empire races and further into specialized fields. Pushing it further, some would have been good at manufacturing while others would have been grand in material research. And while the base line team could be used anywhere, a simple barrier that a specific team could only be consumed in high sec, low sec, or null / worm space would be added with high sec getting the worst percentage while null / worm would get the best percentage. That is, a high sec only team would have a percentage of x while a null sec only team would have a percentage of x times a large amount.

Teams could have been stolen or lost while the player carted them to a station. And only the player "owning" the team would have had the benefit.

But it is a bit too little, too late...
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
#738 - 2014-07-20 12:51:56 UTC
Regional flavour would be nice, i.e. specialist teams that benefit manufacturing of minmatar items like warp disruptors, stasis webs, projectile guns and minmatar ships would only go to Minmatar systems. It would created a regional flavor to industry instead of the globalization we have now.