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Mittani: Greifers drive away new players

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Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#501 - 2014-07-19 13:51:14 UTC
Or perhaps another part of the problem is that those in nullsec have too much power and say regarding how the game is made. Has there ever been a CSM or anyone speaking out for FW balance? PvE balance? Or suggested new player ships only, meaning that they are only usuable for new players. Perhaps even PvE only designed ships if that would work.

I mean is it simply he who has the most power has the most say and everyone else's voice is muted out by CCP? Are they so terrified to oppose the nullsec gangs that they only cater to them and their style of play? I haven't been around this game for long, but if that is the case then it has got to change.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#502 - 2014-07-19 14:09:55 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Or perhaps another part of the problem is that those in nullsec have too much power and say regarding how the game is made.


The next expansion largely addresses industry, and the biggest changes are in highsec. Lrn2troll.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#503 - 2014-07-19 14:11:33 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Or perhaps another part of the problem is that those in nullsec have too much power and say regarding how the game is made. Has there ever been a CSM or anyone speaking out for FW balance? PvE balance? Or suggested new player ships only, meaning that they are only usuable for new players. Perhaps even PvE only designed ships if that would work.

I mean is it simply he who has the most power has the most say and everyone else's voice is muted out by CCP? Are they so terrified to oppose the nullsec gangs that they only cater to them and their style of play? I haven't been around this game for long, but if that is the case then it has got to change.


Setting aside all my forum trolling prowess, the short answer is no.

PvE/ PvP gap has been around from the beginning, long before bloc power was a thing. Yes there was always a divide between Null and high sec and part of the nerf high sec campaign resulted in a BC/BS playerbase but Null content skews the same direction. There were never tier specific groups of content in either high or null that promoted tier based skill training.
Hicksimus
Torgue
#504 - 2014-07-19 14:12:17 UTC
It's funny he mentions this. My corp has a medal for "Helping CCP kill new player retention". Something does need to be done.

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#505 - 2014-07-19 14:14:06 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Or perhaps another part of the problem is that those in nullsec have too much power and say regarding how the game is made. Has there ever been a CSM or anyone speaking out for FW balance? PvE balance? Or suggested new player ships only, meaning that they are only usuable for new players. Perhaps even PvE only designed ships if that would work.

I mean is it simply he who has the most power has the most say and everyone else's voice is muted out by CCP? Are they so terrified to oppose the nullsec gangs that they only cater to them and their style of play? I haven't been around this game for long, but if that is the case then it has got to change.


In EVE, much like in real life, people who refuse to vote don't get a lot of sympathy when their guy doesn't get elected.

Incidentally, CSM7 did have Hans Jagerblitzen, who explicitly ran on a FW platform. Of course you know that because you voted for him and put some effort into helping him get votes and then supporting him while was on the CSM instead of just ineffectually whining from a position of ignorance, right? Your question was entirely rhetorical, right?


Right?





Riiiiiiight.
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#506 - 2014-07-19 14:19:05 UTC
Chinwe Rhei wrote:
I'm sorry to say but the last people CCP should be asking about the newbie experience are the goons.

The whole reason the NPE is so goddamn awful is because CCP has been getting advice about how to attract and keep newbies from old-player heavy and block dominated CSMs for years
The CSM's ideea of a newbie experience is the goonswarm experience: getting recruited out of game, podding yourself to get to null, having isk and free ships sent your way and then being assigned a role as a cog in their machine.
Which is why a bunch of t1 frigates and cruisers were given "fleet roles" that are completely useless and foreign to the average new player to the game.

That has nothing to do with what the tutorials and the newbie experience should be about, which is letting the new player experience the game, and letting him figure out what he wants to do, and encourage him to team up with other players like him and try and make it by themselves, in industry or combat or whatever it is they enjoy.

The reason newbies don't stick around is because no matter how much they are told the contrary, they see that they're too late to the party, every time they want to start their own corps they get stomped on by 8 year old players and told by "helpful" help channel residents that they should just stay in the NPC corps forever or accept being a peon in someone else's army.
They see that "the EvE dream" - starting your very own corp with your friends and making a section of space your own - is a lie. It's something other people got to do when the game was still fun.


yes don't ask the organisation which has an 8 year history of supporting and valuing low-SP and casual players and does more than any other group in EVE to recruit, support and enable them to participate in nullsec right from the get go after all what would they know

You hate goons so much because they utterly disprove your wrong idea of "because no matter how much they are told the contrary, they see that they're too late to the party"
Spurty
#507 - 2014-07-19 16:08:47 UTC
Pheusia wrote:


yes don't ask the organisation which has an 8 year history of supporting and valuing low-SP and casual players and does more than any other group in EVE to recruit, support and enable them to participate in nullsec right from the get go after all what would they know

You hate goons so much because they utterly disprove your wrong idea of "because no matter how much they are told the contrary, they see that they're too late to the party"


So if I make a new character, I'm going to be let right in without having to buy a 3rd party product (Something Awful account) and have full access to everything?

Yes mate, you are off the reservation.

Completely dysfunctional after drowning in their coolaid and being resurrected minus your brain.

No one really hates goons (because, look too closely and you feel pity) as much as the fact that the game encourages what they are doing. It's really like a catalyst for cancer. Game is, was and will always be more fun when their's no power blocks and just lots of sub 1,000 man corps floating about trying to grab 100% of their space for themselves.

Abort the rental operation whatever way you have to.

Make owning A and B worthless without owning C through Z as well.

Make it worth fighting for.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#508 - 2014-07-19 16:14:41 UTC
Spurty wrote:
So if I make a new character, I'm going to be let right in without having to buy a 3rd party product (Something Awful account) and have full access to everything?


If you actually read what they post (rather than seeing a goon and immediately writing off the contents of their posts) you'd know that more than one of their corps openly recruits in game in a non-scam way.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#509 - 2014-07-19 16:16:20 UTC
Spurty wrote:
Pheusia wrote:


yes don't ask the organisation which has an 8 year history of supporting and valuing low-SP and casual players and does more than any other group in EVE to recruit, support and enable them to participate in nullsec right from the get go after all what would they know

You hate goons so much because they utterly disprove your wrong idea of "because no matter how much they are told the contrary, they see that they're too late to the party"


So if I make a new character, I'm going to be let right in without having to buy a 3rd party product (Something Awful account) and have full access to everything?

Yes mate, you are off the reservation.

Completely dysfunctional after drowning in their coolaid and being resurrected minus your brain.

No one really hates goons (because, look too closely and you feel pity) as much as the fact that the game encourages what they are doing. It's really like a catalyst for cancer. Game is, was and will always be more fun when their's no power blocks and just lots of sub 1,000 man corps floating about trying to grab 100% of their space for themselves.

Abort the rental operation whatever way you have to.

Make owning A and B worthless without owning C through Z as well.

Make it worth fighting for.



Sure, I'm off the reservation. Perhaps that's why I've never heard anything about Tri's new player recruitment and development program. Could you give us a quick run-down about how it's operated and what kind of numbers you've inducted over the last 8 years?
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#510 - 2014-07-19 16:17:42 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Spurty wrote:
So if I make a new character, I'm going to be let right in without having to buy a 3rd party product (Something Awful account) and have full access to everything?


If you actually read what they post (rather than seeing a goon and immediately writing off the contents of their posts) you'd know that more than one of their corps openly recruits in game in a non-scam way.

Precisely this. I'm amazed that people still seem to think that all of GSF consists only of SA members in Waffe.
Subject 4927
DPS INC
Probably Up to No Good
#511 - 2014-07-19 16:33:10 UTC
If anything we want more players to join. More players, more tears.

http://subjectandfriends.wordpress.com
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#512 - 2014-07-19 16:34:54 UTC
Spurty wrote:
No one really hates goons (because, look too closely and you feel pity) as much as the fact that the game encourages what they are doing. It's really like a catalyst for cancer. Game is, was and will always be more fun when their's no power blocks and just lots of sub 1,000 man corps floating about trying to grab 100% of their space for themselves.

Can you give me an example of a social system where humans perpetually congregate in guerilla groups and don't form power blocks to be more effective at capitalizing resources?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#513 - 2014-07-19 16:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Gallowmere Rorschach
Sibyyl wrote:
Spurty wrote:
No one really hates goons (because, look too closely and you feel pity) as much as the fact that the game encourages what they are doing. It's really like a catalyst for cancer. Game is, was and will always be more fun when their's no power blocks and just lots of sub 1,000 man corps floating about trying to grab 100% of their space for themselves.

Can you give me an example of a social system where humans perpetually congregate in guerilla groups and don't form power blocks to be more effective at capitalizing resources?

I suppose FARC counts.

Edit: wait, nevermind, you said system, not group. I'm a derp.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#514 - 2014-07-19 18:07:40 UTC
Seems like everyone wants easy or easier kills because there really isn't any damned NPC competition. Perhaps CCP should re-evaluate the system and put in place a new PVE system where NPC's in PVP based ships of varying calibers are present in a system on a random variable.

The new NPC's wouldn't be as difficult as a Sansha site nor have as many NPC's but they would be none the less just as difficult.


Quote:
...and Kane said unto me.....Please...get out of my gorgeous and long flowing hair...oh...hair toss....your giving me split ends....oh...hair toss. Conditioner please CODE Alliance....oh... hair toss....oh....Sad I think I broke a follicle.Sad
Quinn Hatfield
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#515 - 2014-07-19 18:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Hatfield
DrysonBennington wrote:
The new NPC's wouldn't be as difficult as a Sansha site nor have as many NPC's but they would be none the less just as difficult.

How did you miss the glaring oxymoron in your post?

I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#516 - 2014-07-19 18:51:23 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Or perhaps another part of the problem is that those in nullsec have too much power and say regarding how the game is made.


The next expansion largely addresses industry, and the biggest changes are in highsec. Lrn2troll.


The industry patch is a gift a nullsec blocks and has the sole purpose of making them even more entrenched and difficult to dislodge from their systems.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#517 - 2014-07-19 18:54:00 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Spurty wrote:
No one really hates goons (because, look too closely and you feel pity) as much as the fact that the game encourages what they are doing. It's really like a catalyst for cancer. Game is, was and will always be more fun when their's no power blocks and just lots of sub 1,000 man corps floating about trying to grab 100% of their space for themselves.

Can you give me an example of a social system where humans perpetually congregate in guerilla groups and don't form power blocks to be more effective at capitalizing resources?


Right after you give an example of humans instantly teleporting all their city sized weapon systems into the same 10km area.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#518 - 2014-07-19 18:58:01 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
admiral root wrote:
Spurty wrote:
So if I make a new character, I'm going to be let right in without having to buy a 3rd party product (Something Awful account) and have full access to everything?


If you actually read what they post (rather than seeing a goon and immediately writing off the contents of their posts) you'd know that more than one of their corps openly recruits in game in a non-scam way.

Well to be quite fair those corps (mine being one of them) don't generally recruit newbies.

ENLI might be different though. Kick ENLI.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#519 - 2014-07-19 19:41:15 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
Spurty wrote:
No one really hates goons (because, look too closely and you feel pity) as much as the fact that the game encourages what they are doing. It's really like a catalyst for cancer. Game is, was and will always be more fun when their's no power blocks and just lots of sub 1,000 man corps floating about trying to grab 100% of their space for themselves.

Can you give me an example of a social system where humans perpetually congregate in guerilla groups and don't form power blocks to be more effective at capitalizing resources?


Right after you give an example of humans instantly teleporting all their city sized weapon systems into the same 10km area.

Seriously?
His point is one based on human nature, which is universal and unavoidable in any human interactions.
Yours relates purely to internet spaceships.

Way to compare apples to my coffee table.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#520 - 2014-07-19 19:54:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
Spurty wrote:
No one really hates goons (because, look too closely and you feel pity) as much as the fact that the game encourages what they are doing. It's really like a catalyst for cancer. Game is, was and will always be more fun when their's no power blocks and just lots of sub 1,000 man corps floating about trying to grab 100% of their space for themselves.

Can you give me an example of a social system where humans perpetually congregate in guerilla groups and don't form power blocks to be more effective at capitalizing resources?


Right after you give an example of humans instantly teleporting all their city sized weapon systems into the same 10km area.

Seriously?
His point is one based on human nature, which is universal and unavoidable in any human interactions.
Yours relates purely to internet spaceships.

Way to compare apples to my coffee table.


Alright then, human nature is to make games competitive and fun, but then again I'm not making my real life living off EVE unlike some "players" that have far too much influence with CCP.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~