Science & Industry

It's always round up which screw's over caps unless you have me10%. This has been brought up to CCP as an issue in several threads and they just ignore it

Isn't waste going away in Crius (CCP has identified it as "bad complexity")?

Waste is going away, sorta. It's being rolled into base materials and everything takes away from there.

OP I feel your pain. I have cap BPO that were perfect at level 7 that will now be only 40% of perfect. I'm hoping CCP fixes this issue at some point, but it's not looking likely before the 22nd

This requires you to have access to an amarr station with the upgrades while all your components will most likely be cooking in a POS in low sec. Getting access to an upgraded amarr station is not easy

You'll still want to build your cap components out of a pos in low sec for the 10% reduction in materials. Moving the large components is not easy

My formula is worth exactly what you paid for it

Looks like the base amounts in the web calculator are different:

Capital Propulsion Engine: 10 → 10
Capital Sensor Cluster: 6 → 6
Capital Armor Plates: 6 → 7
Capital Capacitor Battery: 4 → 3
Capital Power Generator: 8 → 9
Capital Shield Emitter: 8 → 9
Capital Jump Drive: 10 → 10
Capital Drone Bay: 45 → 48
Capital Computer System: 6 → 7
Capital Construction Parts: 4 → 3
Capital Ship Maintenance Bay: 10 → 10
Capital Corporate Hangar Bay : 10 → 10

The web calculator is also suspect, as ME 0% has no waste on several components. Should be 11.1%

Example: Capital Power Generator 9 [should be CEIL(9 / 0.9) = 10]

I just checked the values from my website against the current SiSi build (for ME -0%, ME -9% and ME -10%), they agree 100%. Whoever gave you that formula doesn't really understand the industry changes. You can't just plug the material modifier in there before rounding, the base material requirements are stored as integers in blueprints.yaml

To get the base amounts from Kronos to Crius (this is only accurate for "standard" T1 items) you calculate baseAmount = CEIL( old baseAmount / 0.9 ). I recommend you get the actual numbers from the Beta SDE, since many material requirements changed quite significantly.

The true amount of materials required is
required = MAX(Number of Runs, CEIL( baseAmount * Number of Runs * MaterialModifier))

Where the modifier is 0.91 for a ME -9% blueprint in a NPC station.

That means the "ME waste" will be
waste = baseAmount * Number of Runs - required

Keep in mind that number of runs change the "ME waste" now. Also for different facilities, you will get different numbers, because the material usage modifier will get multiplied* by 1.05, 0.98 or 0.9 for rapid assemblies, normal assemblies or Thukker Component Assemblies, affecting this "waste" calculation.

A few examples (all ME -5%, only looking at Megacyte):

1x Capital Propulsion Engine, NPC Station
144 Megacyte (ME Waste: 8)

1x Capital Propulsion Engine, Thukker Component Assembly Array
130 Megacyte (ME Waste: 7)

10x Capital Propulsion Engine, NPC Station
1435 Megacyte (ME Waste: 76)

10x Capital Propulsion Engine, Thukker Component Assembly Array
1292 Megacyte (ME Waste: 68)

As you can see, ME waste is no longer a constant for a given ME value. A "perfect" build not only requires a ME -10% blueprint, but also a certain number of runs (and ideally the facility with the best material usage modifier).

(*Pending further investigation tomorrow. If someone has evidence for additive stacking, please correct me)

If your Blueprints are not at ME 10, you are (generally) required to use more materials. You can call this waste, you can also call it "full price". The concept is pretty much the same, just the maths is different.

Also an Amarr Outpost can get more than 2% reduction. The Thukker Component Assembly is still where all the fun is though.

For Ships like the Nidhoggur at ME -9%, you only need 1% Material Reduction from the Facility to get the Capital Propulsion Engine, Capital Jump Drive, Capital Ship Maintenance Bay and Capital Corporate Hangar Bay from 11 to 10 required for a single run, so it should not really matter if you build it in at an upgraded Amarr outpost (1% to 3% material reduction) or at a POS (2% material reduction).

The Thukker Component Assembly array will give people a definitive advantage though, those 10% in material reduction apply fully since the quantities involved are fairly high. Build costs at low sec POS will definitely be lower and potential profits higher than in null sec.

I can confirm now that the manufacturing required materials modifier of the facility and the blueprint stack multiplicatively, just as i assumed yesterday. Keep that in mind for your calculations :)