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EVE IS FALLING

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Author
vlrqsdrrgtt
Doomheim
#81 - 2011-12-07 16:03:34 UTC  |  Edited by: vlrqsdrrgtt
Krios Ahzek wrote:


Yo I think I have to tell you about all those wars against third world countries you've been failing at
Also about the British Empire who once had a similar colonial presence


right ....

and the British Empire had Nukes, aircrafts, missiles and drones.

Besides, you could also say, that empire never fell. It just has now a little different flag, little different language and moved to a place with more space after that civil war in the new world ended bad for some Lords in the old world. That is more appropirate than pretending the British Empire was simular powerful like the USA today.
Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#82 - 2011-12-07 16:18:00 UTC
vlrqsdrrgtt wrote:

"this all happened before and will happen again"

"the Roman Empire"

"I hope"

how many months did nothing happen?

How many more months you want to wait until the situation changes?


btw. speaking of empires:

USA is an Empire, which rules with military bases 2/3 of the planet. There has never been an Empire like this in mankind.

Now do your talk: "Every empire has gone down, this happened before, lets just wait."

I am not worried about USA falling soon. It will not happen.


I'm an American, and while I think we won't fall soon, I do believe it will happen within the next 50 years.

When I say "fall" I mean "we won't be the greatest single force on the planet."
Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#83 - 2011-12-07 16:21:25 UTC
vlrqsdrrgtt wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:


Yo I think I have to tell you about all those wars against third world countries you've been failing at
Also about the British Empire who once had a similar colonial presence


right ....

and the British Empire had Nukes, aircrafts, missiles and drones.

Besides, you could also say, that empire never fell. It just has now a little different flag, little different language and moved to a place with more space after that civil war in the new world ended bad for some Lords in the old world. That is more appropirate than pretending the British Empire was simular powerful like the USA today.


I think we need to decide what we mean when we say "fall" or "fell."

I think I have a much different definition than you do.
Aiwha
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#84 - 2011-12-07 16:21:58 UTC
You forgot about the Supercap nerf, the south is going to push the Russians back into drone space subcap fleet by subcap fleet.

The DRF will be old news within a few months, PL are the new "unstoppable force" with crucible deployed imo.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.

Jack bubu
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#85 - 2011-12-07 17:30:28 UTC
Solar reset XdeathX some days ago

WN reset solar/xdeathx months ago

We have reset WN, RA, Solar, Xdeath a long time ago and have been killing their supers all day long.

The Stain block is currently pushing RAs **** in like its going out of style.

Dunno where your big scary DRF is m8
vlrqsdrrgtt
Doomheim
#86 - 2011-12-07 17:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: vlrqsdrrgtt
alright, lets talk about Sub-Capital fleets:

Without the assumed attack of Goons/CFC in the North, NC. or Raiden will not stop their Southern Campagne. Nobody can even dream about any Russian alliance go help them in a Northern war, before they are not about to die. When will CFC start their attack? They said January/February maybe. Everybody knows Goons. As soon as something starts to be more work than fun, they stop doing it. I would not be surprised, if Goons fail their project "free NOL" and Delve against Ev0ke. Let Goons lose a few more times than they already did and they will simply do something else. Their only purpose is to entertain the SA community. They not even need Eve online for this. They not care about Ev0ke or whatever else happens in Eve or with CCP. If there is no more Eve Online, they will simply promote anothr game to entertain their community.

Right now, we have the situation everybody from the old DRF+friends has nothing to do. Their only purpose is fighting old shadows of NC and AAA for traitory, which is just an excuse for the life in carebear heaven, where they have Sov. PL can even have the luxury of killing the whole Southern Coalition fleet and then some not so important allies, too. Is any of their Technetium moons reinforced at all?

Even when Goons would attack in North and AAA would retake Catch, then what? What would have changed then? In Catch are no Technetium moons and the core DRF renters will be still far away doing, wht they always do, pay their rent every month.

The same story is the reset of Solar fleet vs Shadow. They did this in the past. Remember Etherreal Dawn and IRC? These pet alliances reset RA to kill them. They had XIX blue. They had Solar fleet also blue. As we all know, XIX is still in Drone Regions and Solar fleet, too. They have not even reset each other. But ED is dead. IRC is still there, because thy have no guts.

Or lets talk about the equipment, which the DRF and Southern Coalition uses:

Did you see it? The Southern Coalition fly many Drakes and Armageddons. They do not do this, because these ships are better than Abaddons, Tengus or Machariels. They do it, because they can not afford to lose fleets of more of these more shiny ships. Instead DRF pilots do not care. Many fly pimped t3 or Abaddons. They can afford to buy a few extra % improvement of their fleet combat ships and pay a way higher price for it, many % more.

again:

How many more months you want to wait for the chance of a bigger change? Maybe it is even years?

We talk at least about months.

Simular story in RL: Do not be a fool. No 2-20, who would be all together still not as strong as the USA, will not catch up in the next 50 years, unless USA destroy themselves or the world comes to an end. In tthe Eve world it would mean: XIX stops their renter program, CCP nerfs Tech, hell freezes over tomorrow and so on.

Nobody will fall for this stupid old trick: *make forum poast x reset Y* then kill a few carebers and say: *see, we really reset* *There is no more coalition, we swear it.* You can tell that story to some slavic farmer, who all have the same names and look all the same, because nobody ever left their village. They might believe you. The only proof is, if you take over hostile territory, and not just 1 crappy system.
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2011-12-07 17:47:45 UTC
vlrqsdrrgtt wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:


Yo I think I have to tell you about all those wars against third world countries you've been failing at
Also about the British Empire who once had a similar colonial presence


right ....

and the British Empire had Nukes, aircrafts, missiles and drones.

Besides, you could also say, that empire never fell. It just has now a little different flag, little different language and moved to a place with more space after that civil war in the new world ended bad for some Lords in the old world. That is more appropirate than pretending the British Empire was simular powerful like the USA today.


Back in the day they had ironclads and gurkha regiments

 Though All Men Do Despise Us

Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#88 - 2011-12-07 17:49:34 UTC
Technically the USA already lost their empire to China thanks to their enormous debt from trying to take over two very small middle eastern countries

 Though All Men Do Despise Us

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2011-12-07 18:49:08 UTC
First; waiting is the key - but how long will people wait? As many post - "it will eventually..."

Patience is a virtue yet all these accounts people hold shows just how impatient the player base really is to get and have what they want - now. If this is where they want to eventually go, without the conflicts that attracts them, those accounts will go dormant then be dropped.

Big nullsec battles are rare these days and becoming even more rare. When BoB supposedly ruled the place, they were common - daily style events. Now? Now it stills with small peaks - things that were seen daily 2 years ago are rare "major events" today.

Infighting within "The Russian block" builds as they don't have external threats to keep them united and focused. Even so, you are looking at several months to a year before anyone will be strong enough to challenge them. They are that far ahead from holding SOV so long and building.

Serene Repose wrote:
All the DRF has done is recognize what apparently a lot of the rest of the players didn't. BoB, that held sway this way for so long was in the end a paper tiger. They really didn't have the people to hold the territory they claimed. After finally realizing this, and sorta late in the game, a loose alliance was thrown together to demonstrate this fact. As such things go, it's easier to knock the bully off the various hills than to occupy the hills themselves.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this but BoB wasn't beaten by any external force. It was a director that trashed it from within.

BoB then came back as IT - IT "appeared" and stomped the hell out of most everything around it. It fizzled out and disappeared shortly after the Dominion expansion - again, from internal collapse. That doesn't sound like a paper tiger.

Serene Repose wrote:
0.0 is very much there for the taking...until someone takes it. It is likely DRF doesn't have the online manpower to actually hold what they claim, anymore than BoB did. Eventually, a group of alliances will realize this, throw together another group, and slice and dice their ways to glory...again.
Super caps weren't a big deal "back in the long ago" - rare and the like. They could influence a fight but they didn't decide the battles as much as they have for the last 2 years.

The DRF has held SOV long enough to build up a lot. From the time of BoB up through the strength of NC coming against them. (and, contrary to one goofs post, the NC sure as hell fought as it fell. That dimwit should look at KB entries and all the threads on 'mass lag" from thousand+ participant fleet battles. Not *A* battle - different fights going on across days and weeks. How many of those in the last 2 months? Hell, make it 3 months so you can find a few.)

Now there are many supers and, up until this expansion, totally unassailable in groups - without bringing your own supers. This is at question now but still probably unchanged.

That shut down any/all outside challenges to null - you *MUST* be from null, and have been there for years, to have enough supers to challenge. Meanwhile the current powers just keep building, while losing few of their ships. So they wait. And wait. And wait...

Nobody from "outside" is going to be able to go in there and challenge anything. Those inside have to wait for "the majors" to lose their supers, while building and not losing their own.

Serene Repose wrote:
Who knows? Maybe even Goonswamp can at last put THEIR money where their MOUTHS are and show us how extremely uber they are all on their own...but yeah...they're in reality DRF flunkies....scratch that idiotic thought.
Like you said, no way - even outside the implied "lick-spittle" status, they can't. The goons do not have the muscle to stand up to the DRF.

When BoB resurfaced as IT, they pushed the goons out of where they were and took that space. It was done very quickly and that was only about 2 years ago. The goons haven't held a stable spot in null long enough to build up a significant super-cap presence compared to the DRF.

The only way goons can do it is to wait for "The Russians" to fall from internal strife. If the goons can avoid losing anything major, while the DRF destroys its own supers ...

That won't be measured in weeks. That will be measured in months to a year *IF* nothing challenges the DRF nor the DRF picks a fight. If something does arise, they will unite again and fight the outside threat.

Who is left who would stand against them right now? Nobody. The costs of losing are too high - they probably won't get back in without "renter" status - so don't expect big fleet fights.

Serene Repose wrote:
It's still an open game. It'll take what EVE has difficulty ginning-up, but that has to do with the character (or lack thereof) of the players more than anything else. However, DRF is too a paper tiger.
Paper tiger? They aren't a paper tiger. They've been beat on and come back repeatedly. They'll use PL or any other groups they need to augment their forces. Paper tigers mean they can't do much but this group shows they can survive and fight - they also have a very large supply of the biggest ships in the game.

Serene Repose wrote:
The question is WHO? The further question is, when whomever it turns out to be does the deed will they repeat the same mistake, The Great American Blunderbuss, and leave to go do some digital nailbiting before the job is done?

Conquest has always been easier than control. It's a sword with two edges.
Pardon but screw who - WHEN is a bigger question. Who is someone already in/from nullsec. Nobody else can do it.

Many who have gone to nullsec of late, haven't even seen a single "thousand man fleet" yet. This needs to change - soon™ - as in less than 6 months.
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
#90 - 2011-12-07 20:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Comrade Commizzar
LolLolLolLolLolLolLolLol

Looking around this thread and hearing these comments gives me great hope for Eve.
I don't have any hope for any change comming out of the frozen wasteland of RMT Zero, but clearly the pilots of Eve are finally coming to their senses and admitting the Feudalist State of Zero and the need for the "Common Man" to light the fire of Revolution and burn out the Corruption that plagues Eve.

Burn everything that smells of Goons !

Burn everything that has a Russian Accent !

Fire purifies everything !

Burn you the Way to Paradise !


The only question is who will start the fire and who will wield the torch?
Dizzi Lizzi
Sisters of the Forsaken
#91 - 2011-12-07 23:10:18 UTC
Someone forwarded this communiqué to me. Perhaps of some relevance here...

WARNING! ВНИМАНИЕ! SOLAR FLEET. EN/RU
Mareck001
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#92 - 2011-12-08 07:40:10 UTC
Evil Russians fight and win Twisted
Jenshae Chiroptera
#93 - 2011-12-08 09:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
I thing generally that either space is too small or alliances are too large.

I lean toward the latter as making more systems would just make travel time longer and it is all too likely the current alliances would just take over more systems.

Thus, I think that there needs to be a limit on how many members a corp can have and how many corps can join an alliance additionally there needs to be a limit of how many corps / alliances and individuals you can add to corp and alliance standing lists.

(This would mean there is more people accidentally shooting people as they are neutrals or reds, making more conflict.)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
#94 - 2011-12-08 09:52:44 UTC
Another "doomsday" topic...

Carry on - it's fun to read
Cornerwood
Woodsmen
#95 - 2011-12-08 12:54:56 UTC
Big smileTwisted Look "law of escalation "and if thats not enough even ccp can throw "Apple of discordia" to game.

or is that started yet? maybe some spy is in some big alliances, go paranoid alliance leaders Bear
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#96 - 2011-12-08 13:30:37 UTC
vlrqsdrrgtt wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:


Yo I think I have to tell you about all those wars against third world countries you've been failing at
Also about the British Empire who once had a similar colonial presence


right ....

and the British Empire had Nukes, aircrafts, missiles and drones.

Besides, you could also say, that empire never fell. It just has now a little different flag, little different language and moved to a place with more space after that civil war in the new world ended bad for some Lords in the old world. That is more appropirate than pretending the British Empire was simular powerful like the USA today.


The British Empire was proportionately much more powerful than America is today because of the lack of nukes etc in the world then. The British could do pretty much whatever they wanted because nobody else was even close to being able to challenge them. The British fleet doctrine was to maintain an active fleet bigger than the next two fleets combined.

America doesn't even come close to having that much power and influence in the world today, precisely because we have nukes etc. It doesn't matter how many troops, tanks, ships and planes you have today, because one guy with a suitcase nuke can level your capital city.

As for the "civil war in the new world" - don't make me laugh. The American revolution succeeded because the British empire never brought it's full might to bear; they were too busy fighting a much more important enemy, the French. So they gave up some worthless colonies in order to beat their old enemy. Gratz on doing so well for yourselves since we cut you loose by the way.
LookI'mtalkingontheforu
Doomheim
#97 - 2011-12-08 13:51:32 UTC
Somthing has to fall, if somthing should rise again...
Gingas2552
Doomheim
#98 - 2011-12-08 20:08:14 UTC
You know this is great. Want to thank everyone for making this thread interesting, to say the least.

So let me ask you this question. “Who would like to change this”? Who out there would be interested in being part of one of the most significant movements in Eve History?

Pretty much I’ve decided in my mind, that the serious players here, are the little guys, the small, serious minded, hard hitting PVP’er. It’s always been my experience in Eve, that all the small guys, running low, & high sec, are the real serious PVP’ers in this game. The war decking corps, the Merc’s, They quite literally have a serious mastery of this area of the game, those who don’t recognize it, are simply ignorant.

Regardless of some of the comments made, I do know what’s going on here, and they are really out of control, and need to be stopped. For Eve’s real PVPers, this is literally where the serious fun can indeed begin.

Here is my simple prospective, I’m a serious PVPer, yea for real, lol. These power blocks and there deals, are screwing up my fun, the grand fights, as some one said are becoming a thing of the past out here in 0.0.. I really don’t like that. Not at all.

So with that said, I would like to put out a distress call, to all the little guys! Let’s go get Pandemic! I’m serious, With so many attacking, from so many directions, and so many different small serious PVP, and Pirate outfits, it will be virtually impossible for them to watch all of us, with there spy’s. They just can’t do it, it quite literally will be too much for them to handle, and seriously send them into information overload.

We cut the legs out from under this outfit, this is a serious game changer for all of EVE 0.0 space.

I also challenge all the Pandemic Regulars that are tired of bring the DRF’s watch dogs, and playing nurse made for these care bears to break away. Go back to the old Pandemic ways, and join in on this fun. Lets have the real fights again, no rules no friends, total mayhem.

War deck them, keep them war decked. Find there operational routs, Hit them by surprise, hit them often, from all directions. Really watch there super movements. They will fall!

Like I said in my original posting, CCP can’t ban them. But we together sure as hell can!

They were defeated in last years tournament, They can be defeated in the game.

Intel Breifing:

Taking down Pandemic Legion is the first step in creating a more open 0.0 for all to enjoy and PVP. Eliminating the DRF guard dog, IE. “Pamdemic Legion” will infact ultimately lead to there fall. Sooner is better.

PL’s most valued fighting asset, above all is there intel, being long term Alliance Tournament players, they almost always bring the perfect fighting ship and fittings, against almost all fleets they face, quite literally fitting for the occasion. They won most of there victories in the tournaments by having spy’s in the opposing teams. I personally have seen them very effectively obliterated when jumped by something they aren’t ready for, this is why getting the smaller PVP alliances involved is so critical.

Pandemic also has the largest single super capital fleets in the game to day, it’s very very difficult for them to bring this force to bear in the outer lying areas of 0.0, and low sec, At least most of the time. Sniping a Pandemic super during solo movement is very feasible, especially during there off period, Do your intel!

Pandemic almost always fights with pandemic spy’s imbedded in the opposing force. They win mostly because they know every single thing there opponent is going to do, down to the finest detail. This is the Pandemic Legions primary weapon.

Putting it simply, they can not watch every one of us at all times. Smaller hard core PVP Alliances, “Effectivly off there intelligence radar”, will in fact yield the best results. Quality ships, quality tactics are a must.

Taking into consideration there tactics, you can see clearly, trying to watch so many small individual entities will lead to total intel chaos.

Jumping them unexpectedly is critical.

So do we want to take back 0.0 is the question. Black Legion, Burn Eden, Dirt Nap Squad and the likes of outfits like these are critical.

So with this said, once again the question, do we want to show that no force has the right, or the fire power to hold all of 0.0. It quit literally is up to you.


Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#99 - 2011-12-08 20:29:43 UTC
Lets assume for a minute that your plan works and you are able to take out PL. Lets further assume that as a result the DRF falls. Doesn't this just leave the goons as uncontested lords and masters of 0.0? How can that be a good idea?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#100 - 2011-12-08 20:31:45 UTC
Gingas2552 wrote:

I am a hardcore PvPer, hear me roar.


No, you don't know anything that you're talking about. There is a huge amount of effort involved in evicting anyone from 0.0 space. The structure grinding, reinforcement timers, awkwardly-timed CTAs, constant threat of spies, and a million other things come to mind. Small gang PvPers found in lowsec and NPC nullsec (hisec can hardly harbor any form of PvP outside station camping) are small gang PvPers because they don't want to deal with all that. They want to go out, find people with a similar force, and have a good fight. That, or go out and gank single carebears for kicks.

Interdicting hisec/lowsec (as you're suggesting) will have no impact whatsoever on nullsec alliances. Fact of the day: when a nullsec alliance gets wardecced, they simply do not go to hisec. If they really need an item from hisec, they get an out-of-alliance alt to buy it, haul it to a lowsec system, then jump it in via carrier or jump freighter. At no point there are they gankable because of your wardec.

If you take your interdiction to 0.0, you're unlikely to have any more success. Maybe a kill or two, but those are likely to be ships that were already looking for a fight. In 0.0, bots (and careful PvEers) are incredibly common. You jump into system, and a few seconds later they are already at in a station or at a safespot, and possibly cloaked. Nothing to do there.

The only way to currently take down a large nullsec alliance is to hit them harder than they can muster force to resist. They bring a fleet of 500 to defend their TCU? You bring one of 700. Small gangs can't accomplish that.

And please, killing PL? They don't hold space anymore. I suppose if you want easy kicks, go get hotdropped by their supercaps in Amamake, but otherwise please think before speaking.

... Oh, and has it occurred to you that nullsec alliances have small gang PvPers too? Please do come our way, we'd love to shoot you.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)