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Whats the community think? Hybrids / Lasers

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Arla Sarain
#21 - 2014-07-18 14:51:09 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:


EvE is about variability and making choices. Things shouldn't all be the same, otherwise there are no real choices.

Until the only 2 choices you have is to pick something that wins or lose for not picking IT.

So much for choices...
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#22 - 2014-07-18 15:23:16 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:

Lasers are fine in PVP because:

1. PVP ships are omni tanked and damage types don't matter much.
2. Scorch.
3. Instant ammo swapping.


^

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Dhaq
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-07-18 15:40:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Dhaq
I think everyone understands where you stand on this by now. How many times are you going to repost your topics?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=359063
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=359065
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=358981
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=359084

At this point it is just redundant trolling. Cowardly and uninventive.

And they say NPC alts trash up the place. Roll
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-07-18 15:46:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
I never understood why missiles are kinetic damage while projectiles are explosive. Logically speaking, it should be the other way around. Missiles explode. Projectiles smack into their targets. Maybe there was some racial balance consideration at play here.

Yes, some projectiles actually use explosive rounds but most do not. All missiles, however, have an explosive payload to deal damage to the target. What missiles are solid cylinders of steel without a payload? Therefore it should be switched.


Modern armor-piercing anti-tank missiles are definitely based on kinetic damage. Even though they rely on explosive warheads, those warheads are often shape charges propelling high density penetrators through the armor of the target. That would be "kinetic". A regular blast/frag warhead would be "explosive" and a napalm/pyrotechnic warhead would be "thermal". There's no real-world equivalent of an "EM" warhead yet, but it'd probably be a miniature EMP.

Much of the same technology is used in cannon projectiles as well, so it makes sense that, in EvE, both missiles and projectiles have flexible damage types.


I thought modern AT rounds were either tungsten dart (Pure kinetic) Or DU (kinetic with thermal from Uranium being pyrophoric). The warhead in a shaped charge round isn't the explosive, that is simply a propellant to produce a hypervelocity glass dart of (usually) copper.

The only explosive warheads still in use are squash head rounds and I think only the British army routinely carry them.

EM could be from microwave/xray type warheads I guess...
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#25 - 2014-07-18 16:38:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I thought modern AT rounds were either tungsten dart (Pure kinetic) Or DU (kinetic with thermal from Uranium being pyrophoric). The warhead in a shaped charge round isn't the explosive, that is simply a propellant to produce a hypervelocity glass dart of (usually) copper.

The only explosive warheads still in use are squash head rounds and I think only the British army routinely carry them.

EM could be from microwave/xray type warheads I guess...

Smaller caliber cannons (40mm and below) will fire high density penetrators directly. Larger rounds (Main Battle Tank guns) will use shape charge rounds to accelerate the penetrator at impact or sub-caliber pentrators with discarding sabot. (Titanium Sabot ring a bell anyone?) I think the sabot rounds are more common, but both are (or at least have been) used.

Missiles generally don't travel fast enough to fully capitalize on the kinetic potential of high density penetrators, so they still rely on the shape charges to accelerate it just prior to impact (or use HEAT rounds and do away with the solid penetrator and use a stream of hyper-sonic metal instead).

Side note: While double-checking myself, I found this interesting tidbit on Explosively Formed Penetrators. Now that's some groovy boom boom.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#26 - 2014-07-18 16:44:15 UTC
You again.

It's the 4th or 5th thread you made about this.

Did genos lower standards so much they let people like you stay now?

First whine about missiles being kinetic and now hybrids and lasers.

Next you say projectiles need nerf and have too much dps?
Or wait, buff these too because they can't do kinetic well?

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#27 - 2014-07-18 18:59:26 UTC
ISD Tyrozan wrote:
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.


Should have been moved into oblivion.

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
twit brent
Never Not AFK
#28 - 2014-07-18 20:12:12 UTC
Leave them alone, but also give the revelation a damage bonus. I want one soo bad but its sucks so much.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#29 - 2014-07-18 21:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ellendras Silver
a laser with explosive damage makes as much sense as swim fins on a cat.

and you going to change reload time aswell for all races then? and cap use? DPS, fall off, optimal etc etc

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#30 - 2014-07-18 22:59:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Bohneik Itohn
Ellendras Silver wrote:
a laser with explosive damage makes as much sense as swim fins on a cat.


Don't underestimate the awesomes within Science's pocket of many tricks.

But that isn't a free license to muck with my Beams of Beauteous Burning, CCP.

Lasers are fine.

Hybrids?... Ehh, I don't know.... Every time I try to think about them I never get past this image in my mind.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#31 - 2014-07-20 13:24:37 UTC
I 100% don't think explosive lasers should happen, but crazy science aside - perhaps it could be just as simple as: Massive heat generated on the hull causes combustion of internal gases.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-07-20 13:30:30 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
I 100% don't think explosive lasers should happen, but crazy science aside - perhaps it could be just as simple as: Massive heat generated on the hull causes combustion of internal gases.


A femtosecond pulse laser could do that, vaporize a chunk of material and then superheat it into a ball of seething plasma in a fraction of a second...
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-07-20 14:05:04 UTC
Dhaq wrote:
I think everyone understands where you stand on this by now. How many times are you going to repost your topics?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=359063
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=359065
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=358981
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=359084

At this point it is just redundant trolling. Cowardly and uninventive.

And they say NPC alts trash up the place. Roll


Good thing making multiple posts on the same topic isn't actually going to do anything but annoy forum readers.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#34 - 2014-07-20 18:09:18 UTC
Aerie Evingod wrote:
DHB WildCat wrote:
Missiles - All 4 damage types

Drones - All four damage types

Projectiles - All four damage types.




So what do we think..... should we give hybrids and lasers all four damage types? Or should we make missiles, drones, and projectiles have only 2 damage types as well? Or leave everything alone?


Curious to hear what you think


Example of 2 damage types all weapons....


Missiles - Kinetic / Explosive -since they hit with force and explode.... make sense.

Drones - Gallente weapon for the most part ... caldari are enemy thus is would make sense to use EM/ Therm but that steps on the toes of amarr, so EM / Exp for exploding magnetic rounds?

Projectiles - Enemy is amarr, would make sense their damage does Therm, and secondary damage maybe Explosive.

Hybrids - Are fine Kin /Therm

Lasers - Extreme heat using light waves / photons. Thermal / EM


This way no two weapon types do the same damage. Please remeber its just an example.


Projectiles only have 3 damage types for short range ammo, the small amount of kinetic in each doesn't count.

Lasers have infinite ammo and instant reload. Hybrids have 5 seconds reload and greater damage or better range. Every thing has pros and cons. No homogenization of eve.

Lasers do not have infinite ammo. Each crystal can go 10k shots before cracking.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#35 - 2014-07-20 18:22:11 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
Projectiles - All four damage types.

WRONG
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#36 - 2014-07-20 18:25:55 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:

Lasers do not have infinite ammo. Each crystal can go 10k shots before cracking.

Faction Crystals crack,
t1 Crystals do not and are essentially infinite.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2014-07-20 18:37:43 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Faction Crystals crack,
t1 Crystals do not and are essentially infinite.

To be fair, pretty much everyone always uses T2 or faction crystals in all PVP and most PVE situations.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-07-20 19:04:27 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Faction Crystals crack,
t1 Crystals do not and are essentially infinite.

To be fair, pretty much everyone always uses T2 or faction crystals in all PVP and most PVE situations.

This ^

The only pilots who should be using standard T1 crystals are less than a few days old. After that it's just fail. Maybe the only exception would be POS grinding.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#39 - 2014-07-20 19:11:54 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Faction Crystals crack,
t1 Crystals do not and are essentially infinite.

To be fair, pretty much everyone always uses T2 or faction crystals in all PVP and most PVE situations.

This ^

The only pilots who should be using standard T1 crystals are less than a few days old. After that it's just fail. Maybe the only exception would be POS grinding.


I always keep a couple sets of T1 crystals in my Amarr ships, because 10,000 isk and 10m3 is a pretty cheap investment for having the option of infinite ammo or just to bash on something without burning up a good set and having to make a trip to high.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-07-20 19:24:18 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Faction Crystals crack,
t1 Crystals do not and are essentially infinite.

To be fair, pretty much everyone always uses T2 or faction crystals in all PVP and most PVE situations.

This ^

The only pilots who should be using standard T1 crystals are less than a few days old. After that it's just fail. Maybe the only exception would be POS grinding.


I always keep a couple sets of T1 crystals in my Amarr ships, because 10,000 isk and 10m3 is a pretty cheap investment for having the option of infinite ammo or just to bash on something without burning up a good set and having to make a trip to high.

I use them for highsec POS and POCO bashing because I'm cheap.
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