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Can IGS Posts Meet A Minimum Standard of Intellectual Honesty?
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Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2014-07-17 20:22:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Diana Kim wrote:
To be honest, I never met an alive Minmatar before I became a capsuleer. I knew that they exist somewhere, and that they have Minmatar Republic somewhere in the space. But nobody here really cared about them, who they are and what they were doing.
There were some reports about business with minmatar corporation here and there, that's all the information we had.

My opinion about your peoples is a consequence of analysis of behaviour of minmatar people, their abilities, their manners, their honor, their tendencies to keep words and deals, or, more likely, not keeping them. All these actions, all these peoples I met, made my mind about Minmatar people. Most of information was provided by such peoples like Ayallah, Anabella Rella, and so on.

After talks with them, I am pretty sure, that I really don't want to discuss important things with peoples who have "intellect of a Brutor", or "honor of a Sebiestor".


You are probably the most ill-informed person I know of on the Minmatar people.

First clue: you could ask at any time and receive information.

Second: we, as a people wear our hearts on our shoulders and our truths in our graves. you always use the word Jajii and racism but you do so little to preserve your own people and culture that all you are doing is weakening the state. You should decide then who you are insulting, culture-wise. (though self awareness was never your thing.)

Third: leave the blob in huola some time, I do not have all summer to hunt you nor the inclination to join every fleet just to get a chance to shoot at you. let me ******* kill you already,

because you keep saying my name

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Anslo
Scope Works
#82 - 2014-07-17 20:25:42 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Third: leave the blob in huola some time, I do not have all summer to hunt you nor the inclination to join every fleet just to get a chance to shoot at you. let me ******* kill you already,


If you joined our fleet you too could watch her ship disintegrate in a single second.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Kale Silence
Doomheim
#83 - 2014-07-17 20:51:52 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
It's an understandable mistake. I keep mistaking Gallente boys for women too, given the lack of proper Civire chiseled jawlines or that Brutor bulk. I suppose it could also be all the times I'm asked if I'm a Gallente male for that matter.


Mmmh, sexeh Blink
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2014-07-17 21:01:38 UTC
Anslo wrote:

If you joined our fleet you too could watch her ship disintegrate in a single second.


I know, I know...

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#85 - 2014-07-18 03:00:11 UTC
"That which is asserted without facts can be dismissed without evidence."

-- The IGS in summary on its intellectual honesty.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#86 - 2014-07-18 03:53:19 UTC
damnant quod non intelligunt

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Jade Blackwind
#87 - 2014-07-18 11:53:07 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Exploring differences is how you improve your own kind. Examine everything that is different, unknown, difficult or out of the ordinary. You'll find either flaws or improvements that can be applied or weeded out of your own societies, or even come up with something completely new should the right combination of information slosh around in your head in the right quantities.

No. Discussing the merits of a system of governance is not even remotely analogous to your rather stretched metaphor. It's the only way towards self-improvement.
Except that the same decades-old arguments repeated over and over in circles by the few eggers improve nothing, while the society moves on. Yes, sometimes it accidentally manages to fix itself - such was the case with Heth, for example - but the endless debates in capsuleer media had nothing to do with that outcome.

Quote:
Or you could of course just "kill each other in peace" because that's been known to do a whole lot of good.
So far exchanging words on the IGS never prevented most eggers and the baseliners involved in the war(s) to continue killing each other. A few reasonable people don't make the statistic, you can count them on both hands anyway. Silence the discussion, and the same thing will go on.

There was some sort of Caldari-Minmatar collaboration effort, where is it now? (The Gallente-Caldari one was killed off by the events around Caldari Prime and Heth, at least that is understandable).

And there is still the whole Amarr-Minmatar front that boils down to religious stuff and slavery, and those I woudn't even touch with a 30-foot pole.

Claudia Osyn wrote:
damnant quod non intelligunt
Generosus equus non curat canem latrantem.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#88 - 2014-07-18 12:25:13 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
edit: unless you were offended by the op, why would people post here aside from trolling or entertainment? let alone follow O_o I prefer nature and informational non-fiction myself, not this gallente holo-drama drivel.

My first response was because a question was asked and I had a short, simple and accurate answer to that question that could be provided. No offense was taken; it's a question asked by what I'm reasonably certain is a decent number of people who wouldn't mind being able to actually have discussions or debates in a forum format without the usual back-and-forth ****-slinging, interruptions and thread derailment from people whose sole purpose is to do just that.

My second was out of amusement that the point of my first post had subsequently been proven in almost every single post following it across several pages.

Ayallah wrote:
(I have nothing against you people, you just have the worst holo's and you know it.)

As someone who doesn't watch holos very much anymore, I wouldn't really know who has the best or the worst out these days; regardless, it would be a matter of personal tastes and opinions and not some sort of absolute. Of what I have seen over the years, though, there is good and bad from pretty much every group that cares to make them. No group really had a solid grasp on having the "best" or "worst" overall.

But if you want to get into that sort of subjective commentary, I could point out that the Matari holos have a certain predilection - more like a fetish, really - for the overly-cliché plotline of "overworked/abused slave rises up and overthrows his/her master and leads his/her people to freedom." It's cute for a handful of holos, but after a while it becomes pretty clear the only thing actually changing between the holos is the names (and sometimes the genders) of the characters and the location the story takes place.Roll

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#89 - 2014-07-18 12:59:20 UTC
Oh on the contrary, Jade. It's changed quite a bit where it was supposed to. It's not necessarily the norm, but it happens often enough to count. Your own views or that of others change through discourse. One or two other readers might take different viewpoints into account and change their own. Sweeping societal changes aren't wrought on the IGS, but through several thousand if not millions of places quite similar to the IGS, through "the same decades-old arguments".

Silencing the discussion does nothing but put up walls between every camp and everything stagnates. These walls still exist and there's a certain waft of rot from every camp yet, but without the discussions it'll be even worse.

It's never been about sweeping entire demographics away in a burst of logic and reason. It's been about pitting your views against that of another and seeing if anything happens. Sometimes, often enough to make it worthwhile, it does. Frankly, trying to silence these exchanges reeks of fear. A fear that your own standpoint is on crumbling ground and must be protected from scrutiny or dissenting opinion. If you consider it sound and strong, you should be cherishing it whenever any viewpoint locks horns with another as it's the only way to raise the good ones and erode the ones without merit.

If you simply find it boring, go find some amusement rather than trying to silence that which no one has ever forced you to participate in.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
Jade Blackwind
#90 - 2014-07-18 14:26:45 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Oh on the contrary, Jade. It's changed quite a bit where it was supposed to. It's not necessarily the norm, but it happens often enough to count. Your own views or that of others change through discourse. One or two other readers might take different viewpoints into account and change their own. Sweeping societal changes aren't wrought on the IGS, but through several thousand if not millions of places quite similar to the IGS, through "the same decades-old arguments".

Silencing the discussion does nothing but put up walls between every camp and everything stagnates. These walls still exist and there's a certain waft of rot from every camp yet, but without the discussions it'll be even worse.

It's never been about sweeping entire demographics away in a burst of logic and reason. It's been about pitting your views against that of another and seeing if anything happens. Sometimes, often enough to make it worthwhile, it does. Frankly, trying to silence these exchanges reeks of fear. A fear that your own standpoint is on crumbling ground and must be protected from scrutiny or dissenting opinion. If you consider it sound and strong, you should be cherishing it whenever any viewpoint locks horns with another as it's the only way to raise the good ones and erode the ones without merit.
Ha, I actually like this attitude. It is totally pointless, of course, but it's the people who think like that who sometimes get that slight chance to change something in the world -- or, at least, to leave a memory of themselves. Songs of their deeds will be sung by their kin at the lodge hearth, as the proper Minmatar would say.

Jinari Otsito wrote:
If you simply find it boring, go find some amusement rather than trying to silence that which no one has ever forced you to participate in.
This advice has its merit. Reading too much Galnet lately has peculiar effects on what's left of my brain, hehe. I'd better find some amusement elsewhere before I go and join the Disciples of Ston or something.

Cheers!
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2014-07-18 14:53:17 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:




the edit was not directed at you at all morwen, it was rhetorical.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Anslo
Scope Works
#92 - 2014-07-18 15:54:49 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Anslo wrote:

If you joined our fleet you too could watch her ship disintegrate in a single second.


I know, I know...


Yet you do not act.

WHY AYA WHY MUST YOU DO THIS?!

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#93 - 2014-07-18 21:35:10 UTC
Didn't we agree earlier that the answer to the OPs question was probably 'No'?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Anslo
Scope Works
#94 - 2014-07-18 21:41:48 UTC
Whatever you say fun killer.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#95 - 2014-07-18 21:43:45 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Didn't we agree earlier that the answer to the OPs question was probably 'No'?


I can't even remember what the op was about. We're five pages in, the original topic is long dead and gone in a proper IGS fashion. Except where STON is concerned, I suppose.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#96 - 2014-07-21 04:23:17 UTC
Ayallah wrote:

You are probably the most ill-informed person I know of on the Minmatar people.

First clue: you could ask at any time and receive information.

I never planned or visited any "minmatarology" classes. I repeat, all information about Minmatar peoples I get from watching at peoples like you. If I get anything wrong - probably you should look at what you were doing or telling.
And of course, if I will need to know anything in particular, I will definitely ask.
Not you, though.

Ayallah wrote:

Second: we, as a people wear our hearts on our shoulders and our truths in our graves. you always use the word Jajii and racism but you do so little to preserve your own people and culture that all you are doing is weakening the state. You should decide then who you are insulting, culture-wise.

Ayallah wrote:
(though self awareness was never your thing.)

What I said about Brutor intellect?.. If you wish to insult peoples, at least don't do completely stupid and groundless lies, which no one (except some hardcore brainwashed by gallentean propaganda trolls would back it just to try to insult me) would support.

And replying to your rant, I fight to destroy ENEMIES of the State, how your head could even possibly think that this WEAKENS the State?!... Guess you have to be a minmatar to think so.

Ayallah wrote:

Third: leave the blob in huola some time, I do not have all summer to hunt you nor the inclination to join every fleet just to get a chance to shoot at you. let me ******* kill you already,

It isn't really HARD to find me. There are agents to give locations, there is Neocom, anyone can drop me a mail, or even start a conversation to find out about my location and availability.
Those, who look, find.

Oh, and poking at me during the important field operation about "derp derp fight me 1v1 leave your stupid fleet" is probably a bad idea. So you should either wait for the operation to end, or for when I am not engaged in it.
I don't really understand it. There was A LOT of freaking time to find me, and you are trying to do this only when I am in the operation, really?

Ayallah wrote:

because you keep saying my name

Okay, minmatar, I can just call you a minmatar. You can be happy, since I didn't say your name today.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Kale Silence
Doomheim
#97 - 2014-07-27 02:10:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kale Silence
Diana Kim wrote:
Okay, minmatar, I can just call you a minmatar. You can be happy, since I didn't say your name today.


Are you stupid?
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#98 - 2014-07-27 09:07:26 UTC
Kale Silence wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Okay, minmatar, I can just call you a minmatar. You can be happy, since I didn't say your name today.


Are you stupid?

Rhetorical question?

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Kale Silence
Doomheim
#99 - 2014-07-27 21:44:39 UTC
Honest question. This Kim person seems completely ********.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#100 - 2014-07-28 01:08:16 UTC
Kale Silence wrote:
Honest question. This Kim person seems completely ********.

She's... Unique? I guess that's the polite way of putting it. I think she may have Irreverseable brain damage, the poor thing.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.