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Lack of a high end caldari rail platform
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2014-07-18 01:14:24 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
The Rokh has **** for EHP. It has less EHP than a Tachypoc, let alone a Megathron. Remember a fleet-fit Rokh needs an injector so that limits it to a 8-slot tank. (4 mids, damage control, 3 rigs) 2 invulns stacking nerf your shield link bonus down to 50% while armor tanks with 3 hardeners still get 88%. The Rokh has 150k EHP with an EM rig and 165k if it's willing to accept a pretty significant EM resist hole. An Apoc has 175k, the Megathron can get close to 225k with 3 plates and still has 175k in a 2 damagemod config. To even get up to 150k/165k EHP the Rokh has to give up fitting a sensor booster, which the armor battleships can fit.

The Rokh right now is just a really ****** Megathron. If you don't consider the 150km soft range limit due to on-grid probing, it's a ****** Apocalypse instead. Less EHP, less DPS, two thirds the velocity, double the signature radius.

Shield tanking Tier 1 ships is really problematic in general, shield has lower base resists, (0/50/40/20, 110 total vs. 50/20/25/35, 130 total) lower EHP contribution from LSEs vs, plates, shield single-resist hardeners have no advantage over their armor counterparts, and using invulnerability fields stacking nerfs your ganglinks to uselessness. If you're not kiting, which obviously requires a shield tank, you don't want to be shield tanking.

It almost sounds like shield and armor tanking lean towards different combat styles. Working as intended?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#82 - 2014-07-18 03:21:10 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
The Rokh has **** for EHP. It has less EHP than a Tachypoc, let alone a Megathron. Remember a fleet-fit Rokh needs an injector so that limits it to a 8-slot tank. (4 mids, damage control, 3 rigs) 2 invulns stacking nerf your shield link bonus down to 50% while armor tanks with 3 hardeners still get 88%. The Rokh has 150k EHP with an EM rig and 165k if it's willing to accept a pretty significant EM resist hole. An Apoc has 175k, the Megathron can get close to 225k with 3 plates and still has 175k in a 2 damagemod config. To even get up to 150k/165k EHP the Rokh has to give up fitting a sensor booster, which the armor battleships can fit.

The Rokh right now is just a really ****** Megathron. If you don't consider the 150km soft range limit due to on-grid probing, it's a ****** Apocalypse instead. Less EHP, less DPS, two thirds the velocity, double the signature radius.

Shield tanking Tier 1 ships is really problematic in general, shield has lower base resists, (0/50/40/20, 110 total vs. 50/20/25/35, 130 total) lower EHP contribution from LSEs vs, plates, shield single-resist hardeners have no advantage over their armor counterparts, and using invulnerability fields stacking nerfs your ganglinks to uselessness. If you're not kiting, which obviously requires a shield tank, you don't want to be shield tanking.

It almost sounds like shield and armor tanking lean towards different combat styles. Working as intended?


So it's design from the beginning is something that can't work?
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#83 - 2014-07-18 04:25:12 UTC
To be fair, while caldari t2 and t3 has a definitive range advantage over gallente with range, I would actually be quite alright with seeing the eagle and harpy (or vulture instead) getting one of its optimal bonuses swapped for tracking speed. Admittedly while caldari DOES have superior range for long-range hitting power, it would be nice to see a little more utility with blasters in regard to something outside of the cormorant getting a tracking speed bonus.

Also, while we're at it, please make the raptor an Ishukone ship. It has no business being Lai Dai with those rails...
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#84 - 2014-07-18 07:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
[quote=Xequecal]
It almost sounds like shield and armor tanking lean towards different combat styles. Working as intended?



Yes...but the intent seems to not be well thought out.

The EHP hit makes sense as they don't want tanking monsters firing from 150-249 km's that are also instant hit damage monsters (I am excluding max range raven setups with the instant part....they take time to land fro 200+ kms out). I see that, will say yes ccp made a decent call here.

Also if used well, range adds to rokh's tank as it dances in falloff (if not outside range entirely) of other weapons. So it taking less body shots makes sense again....in an ldea world it should not be hit much. As the Marine Scout Snipers say...why run you will only die tired. They live longer by being long range, unseen and not getting hit with fire

However...several warp to tricks as mentioned a few times in the thread hinder this. Rokh doesn't get full use of its "tank by being in fall odd/out of range entirely" since to be there they can get bum rushed if they wander too far out.

So often times a rokh pilot creeps in to not be bum rushed as easy. My sop in fleet rohks was to land say +20-40 on spotters called by fc for amarr and minmatar heavy fleets for example. Far enough I hope other side fc calls them primary first but well under a potential bum rush scenario set up. All this got me was CNAM hitting in optimal more often but the damage not exactly OP situation depending.


Put another way...it gets range not used to max potential most of the time. As max potential can lead to bad things. Where as the armour BS get bs bonuses they use pretty much full time.

It be why I x-trained out tbh. Well that and I am an older pilot and recall the days before hybrid buff. The good ole days when sometimes you'd fit lasers or projectiles to actually improve the rokh. And they did improve it.. unless a purist with OCD they were not fail fit to many. Forget the dps difference exactly but the damage drop from hybrid to projectile rokh was shockingly small. And you got cap less guns in the deal. Which added some appeal to projectile rokh. Prebuff....sustained fire rather difficult with you basically neuting yourself with cap use.