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level V skill requirements with a bonus per level: why?
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#61 - 2014-07-15 01:59:38 UTC
frigates online... that's a pretty good one.

one thing i'm beginning to see is why this level V situation could stand for so long. you know, people have just taken it as part of 'difficult'

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President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Shahai Shintaro
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2014-07-15 02:04:14 UTC
Tibo Paralian wrote:
How about stop using analogies to justify the status quo?

I don't even know why I am responding at this point. You don't want reasons or anything else. Its obvious the only answer you'll accept is to let me fly whatever I want the second I create a character. Lets ignore the ramifications this will do to the eve market both inside and outside the game (you will never need to buy a cap sitter if you can just create a new character and train titan 1 in 10 minutes).

Just tell me this, how can you fly a marauder if you don't know how to fly a battleship?
Shahai Shintaro
State War Academy
Caldari State
#63 - 2014-07-15 02:08:03 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
frigates online... that's a pretty good one.

one thing i'm beginning to see is why this level V situation could stand for so long. you know, people have just taken it as part of 'difficult'


Its not difficult. As you can see from my other posts in this thread, its common sense to have a general base before specializing. I want to reiterate that I am solely talking about the required racial ship skill being to 5, not any other skill being to 5.

If your issue is that why have a skill bonus that has to be at 5 do something to a ship, just pretend that bonus is a role bonus to the hull. There is a technical reason why a ship skill is required for the hull on top of the t2 skill. If the ship skill was not required, then you could train marauders without training battleships and then fly all four factions marauders.
Tibo Paralian
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#64 - 2014-07-15 02:23:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tibo Paralian
Shahai Shintaro wrote:
Tibo Paralian wrote:
How about stop using analogies to justify the status quo?

I don't even know why I am responding at this point. You don't want reasons or anything else. Its obvious the only answer you'll accept is to let me fly whatever I want the second I create a character. Lets ignore the ramifications this will do to the eve market both inside and outside the game (you will never need to buy a cap sitter if you can just create a new character and train titan 1 in 10 minutes).

Just tell me this, how can you fly a marauder if you don't know how to fly a battleship?



That's just unfair, you keep using analogies as if just because it applies to a lot in real life it must apply to a game. I definitely do not want titans to be trainable in 10 minutes.

Why do you assume that I do not know how to fly a battleship just because I do not have the racial BS skill to V? And even if I did not know how to, why does that concerns you or anybody for that matter?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#65 - 2014-07-15 03:15:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
this is another version of the level V requirement: a racial T2 split, with racial Hull level III as a minimum for racial T2 level I. it's an example of the benefit put further away, without changing the effect of having it trained.

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President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2014-07-15 20:04:08 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
this is another version of the level V requirement: a racial T2 split, with racial Hull level III as a minimum for racial T2 level I. it's an example of the benefit put further away, without changing the effect of having it trained.

No. We do not need everyone and there alt able to fly every T2 ship in the game in a few months. It would remove meaningful choices from the training process. This would be bad.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#67 - 2014-07-15 20:47:15 UTC
Tibo Paralian wrote:
That's just unfair

I LOL'd Lol
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#68 - 2014-07-15 22:04:42 UTC
you use the word "meaningful" as if minimum requirements yield a well-rounded ship

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President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2014-07-16 04:13:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Rain6637 wrote:
you use the word "meaningful" as if minimum requirements yield a well-rounded ship

I don't think you understand what "meaningful" means.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#70 - 2014-07-16 06:44:11 UTC
awesome! ninety days of meaningful training to sit in a marauder

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President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Zalbrak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2014-07-16 09:22:18 UTC
It is because of the 90 days of prerequisites that it is a meaningful choice to train Marauders, because it is the choice to not be training for, say, exhumers, or interdictors, or recons, or assault frigates or command ships or ...
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#72 - 2014-07-16 15:07:01 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Zalbrak wrote:
It is because of the 90 days of prerequisites that it is a meaningful choice to train Marauders, because it is the choice to not be training for, say, exhumers, or interdictors, or recons, or assault frigates or command ships or ...


What if I want to fly all instead of one?

I want it now!


Now I said!
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#73 - 2014-07-16 17:56:23 UTC
ok. I guess all that's left to do is train all T2 skills to V, so that my clones will be as expensive and meaningful as possible when the racial T2 redistribution happens.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#74 - 2014-07-17 05:08:45 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2014-07-17 19:15:05 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
ok. I guess all that's left to do is train all T2 skills to V, so that my clones will be as expensive and meaningful as possible when the racial T2 redistribution happens.

Source?

And no, a random image doesn't count.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#76 - 2014-07-17 19:46:22 UTC
It is a game design decision. The amount of time needed to get specific ship. When jump freighter changed, for example, the time remained about the same. Same when bs Lev 5 was removed from capital hulls.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
JAF Anders
Adenosine Inhibition
The Chicken Coop
#77 - 2014-07-17 20:24:44 UTC
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there. It's a marketing decision more than a game design decision. Dangling the carrot in front of new players is only beneficial for the coffers of CCP in the short run, rather than allowing a much wider playing field to develop due to lower barriers to entry, the balance of which would attract more subscribers in the long run.

The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.
Sinnish Saken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#78 - 2014-07-17 21:05:20 UTC
What's worse? Having to progress your skills from frigate > destroyer > cruiser > battle cruiser > battleship or being allowed to fly a battleship day one(terribly) but having to buy plex to afford it? (followed by you losing your poorly fitted/skilled battleship, then quitting the game)

Either way CCP will make money(good for them), but in the ladder the players lose....especially new characters who don't prefer to plex for a BS hull.





Maybe this conversation has gone off on a tangent. Are you simply requesting that the bonus not apply per skill level(semantics)? Or do you really think you should be able to use tech 2 ships/mods at skill lvl 3? Sorry I don't feel like reading through the thread again.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#79 - 2014-07-17 21:12:39 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Sinnish Saken wrote:
What's worse? Having to progress your skills from frigate > destroyer > cruiser > battle cruiser > battleship or being allowed to fly a battleship day one(terribly) but having to buy plex to afford it? (followed by you losing your poorly fitted/skilled battleship, then quitting the game)

Either way CCP will make money(good for them), but in the ladder the players lose....especially new characters who don't prefer to plex for a BS hull.





Maybe this conversation has gone off on a tangent. Are you simply requesting that the bonus not apply per skill level(semantics)? Or do you really think you should be able to use tech 2 ships/mods at skill lvl 3? Sorry I don't feel like reading through the thread again.


The OP is asking for the removal of the base level 5 skill requirement to fly T2 ships. All T2 ships and guns require the base skill to be at 5. I know CCP made an exception for Jump Freighters.
Sinnish Saken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2014-07-17 21:25:52 UTC
IIshira wrote:
The OP is asking for the removal of the base level 5 skill requirement to fly T2 ships. All T2 ships and guns require the base skill to be at 5. I know CCP made an exception for Jump Freighters.


Thanks. And I disagree.

My SP have been distributed in a way that makes my character have.....character. The game wouldn't feel the same if I could change my mind and go from an explorer to miner using t2 mods/ships in a matter of days.