Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Um, no. Limited Engagement timers were created specifically to be easy to understand. If you have one, Guy #5 can shoot at you, and you can shoot at him. Nice and easy.




Even you cannot possibly be that obtuse.




Heh, no, no it's not the only one. That's actually pretty funny.



No, the simplest method is just not to screw over intended gameplay based on specious reasoning interpreting a solution to imaginary problems. That's the simplest method.

I'd rather do nothing at all (because, you know, the supposed problem you guys want to fix is made up) than put another dagger in the design philosophy of EVE for the sake of adding more safety to highsec.

Highsec needs less safety, not more. Less mechanics that enable complacency, not more.

You're not reading between the lines.

There is no real barrier to them being in a player corp. This is a false flag.

The actual thing keeping people in NPC corps forever is that NPC corps are immune to wars and their tax rate is not high enough to account for the increased safety.

Too many positives to being in an NPC corp. If you want a culprit, there it is.




Unless his corp decides to grow a pair and actually fight him. This is a sandbox. What part of that do you not understand? If you want other people to suffer consequences, then visit consequences on them yourself. Stop asking for NPCs to do your job for you. Yes, you are required to defend yourself. Even in "high" security space.

Don't like that fact? Then go play a different game.




Ramp up steep penalties on anyone in an NPC corp besides a FW corp that is older than 60 days.

About a 30% tax rate. They also shouldn't be able to queue manufacturing or research jobs imo.




Don't kill the game because you deride what it was founded on. Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies made that mistake. And don't pretend like catering to the casuals will "increase the health of the game". That's a completely false premise from every historical perspective of MMOs. Every game that alienated their core playerbase to do this has died.

No. I am saying nothing of the sort. I am disputing the issue that is being raised, I am saying that it is a false flag. It has little if anything to do with new player retention for a number of reasons.

If you really want to incentivize new players to get out of NPC corps, then you need more carrots for player corps, and more sticks for NPC corps. Often the two can be one and the same.

You're making the mistake of thinking that EVE actually needs the kind of "player" who so rabidly avoids what you call "free kill" (more like any percent possiblity of PvP greater than zero) mechanics.

EVE allows for and encourages non consensual PvP. It is pretty much the lynchpin of the game, one of the core design philosophies of EVE.

If that's a deal breaker for them then those people will leave eventually anyway. People like that quitting is a good thing.

Take a read through the forums. People are saying that every day.



Yeah, because that's entirely untrue. It's not the "main issue" or anything else, because the very premise it starts from is false.

New players do not have a problem getting into corporations. Notably, neither do the real awoxers. You can get into corps in highsec with filthydirty killboards and a cat gif.

But since the goal of many of the people pushing this is not to actually help newbies, the real problem is that PvP is allowed to happen at all. Hence why they always try to hide their suggestions behind new players, who are a sympathetic subject.



Hence why NPC corps should be highly punished after a certain character age. Unless you're in faction warfare, after you are sixty days old you do not belong in an NPC corp. If you insist on it, you should be heavily taxed to help pay for all that extra safety you get.

This isn't so much @ you Kaarous as it is for the people you're talking to. Just figured I'd add to your thoughts.

EVE in my experience is best described as a Darwinistic arena of ideas. If your idea is ill suited for EVE it's quickly discarded and beaten down. Meanwhile if it works it's picked up at a sprint and ran with by a large number of players. This can easily be seen in the form of NRDS vs NBSI. NBSI is a much safer, faster, and easier to understand IFF system in EVE due to:

NBSI

• Only blue standings stop weapons fire.
• There is no red list to compare with allies.
• Neuts are not blue so therefore don't make a relevant difference.
• Usually far fewer mistakes in friend or foe identification due to the simplicity of the lack of a look up process.

On the other hand NRDS has all of these dangerous caveats that can get your pilots killed quite quickly just so you look nicer to bears.

• Breaks down in a multi-alliance setting due to the complexity of maintaining red lists.
• Requires more time to identify foes if an external application is in use. Which has the side effect of inaction letting foes escape.
• Does not have the same degree of safety in identification of friends(or non-foes if you want to get anal).
• The only real advantage over NBSI(as I stated earlier) is that you look more cuddly to players that have a bear philosophy of risk rejection. These same players in a gross majority of instances will never help you fight.

This is only a single example, but you can apply it to almost any philosophy in EVE and see which ones are most successful and make choices based on those observations.

There have been many things said. It'd be a hassle to pick through everything and get the important bits so let's just do this.

1: An individual mentioned something about the fact that people will take the easiest route of shutting off corp recruitment, which restricts new players, which trumps any benefit of awoxing.

Not true. Because I joined a corp with an open door policy as a new player awoxing was a part of my early Eve experience. It helped me get a perspective on the dynamic gameplay Eve has to offer and got me excited to try new and interesting things. Before that I was grinding out SOE missions.

2: Someone said something about not all types of players are needed in Eve.

Completely false. I started out thinking that the most interesting activity for me would be mining. Now I do anything I want, when I want, and none of it is mining. I don't blow up a lot of ships or get a lot of ships blown up but I interact with plenty of people who're very hostile, and I have a hell of a lot of fun doing it. If you think that some people are cut out for Eve and others are not, you are sorely mistaken. How new players experience Eve and how they are encouraged by their peers to interact with those experiences makes the player.

3: Lots of talk about how Awoxing and war deccing driving new players off, because they simply can't cope.

Nope. I coped just fine, even when both were occurring simultaneously along with spies from the war-deccers. It's all about how your corpfellows treat the situation. There were a lot of people within my alliance that said "Oh noes! Time to dock and go play minecraft!" and then there were some of them that said "Blow that noise, let's go get them, and if we can't win the fight lets at least have fun wasting their time baiting them since they're wasting ours." And lo, slowly but surely attitudes started to change. More members started applying for the PvP branch of the alliance and people not only actively participated in the wars, but eagerly enjoyed any role, minor or major, they got to play in them.

I've said it time and again and I will play this harp until the strings break. The problem isn't the mechanics, it's the community. On both sides. People who fill new players' heads with FUD are just as bad as the griefers.

Good corpmates help with the losses too.

You mistake my point when I say not all types of players are needed.

I said players, not characters. I don't care *what* you do, but I do care about what kind of attitude you bring to the table.

A good example is Jenn Aside. He's about as pure of a PvE character as you can get, he doesn't really do anything else. But the man is farther from being a carebear than most of the nullsec players I have ever met. Because he acknowledges that PvP can and will happen, plans for it, and acts accordingly.

The kind of player who joins the game to try and advocate to turn it into "Insert other MMO" on the other hand...

Nope.


"So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time."

I.E. if you are logged into the game and flying a ship you have consented to PvP, as it cannot be avoided.