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Mittani: Greifers drive away new players

First post
Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#441 - 2014-07-16 19:57:51 UTC
Namiene wrote:
Can we not flip this whole thing on its head and have the new players driving away the greifers ?

What if its the new players that are the greifers ?

Indeed 'Goonswarm' is well renown for recruiting anyone and everyone, especially new players; and yet this alliance are the biggest group of greifters in the whole history of computer games.

I think your walking on thin ice my friend if this is the place your mind is flowing; but im sure you know what you are doing.



We don't greif anyone. Greifing is a bannable offence and rightly so.
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#442 - 2014-07-16 22:01:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Romanov
Greif and greifing are not words. Stop it, all of you.


vvv edit: FINE. They're not English words and we are conversing in English so stop using it. Roll

Whole Squid: Get Inked.

Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#443 - 2014-07-16 22:06:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Arkady Romanov wrote:
Greif and greifing are not words. Stop it, all of you.



Funny how wrong you are.

edit:

this one is even better

2nd edit:

and here we have photographic evidence that greifing was indeed invented by the German Wehrmacht in the early 1940s.

I rest my case.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#444 - 2014-07-16 22:37:09 UTC
Good article. I can imagine the response if Ripard Teg had written it, though.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#445 - 2014-07-16 22:38:51 UTC
Here's an idea.....why don't ALL OF YOU go out tomorrow, find a newbie, and help them.

About 100 million skill points ago someone gave me a retriever....

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#446 - 2014-07-16 23:52:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Here's an idea.....why don't ALL OF YOU go out tomorrow, find a newbie, and help them.

About 100 million skill points ago someone gave me a retriever....

Did it today. Whee we've got newbies in local and even on our jabber.

Rather give procurers though, much tankier. Then again, like mentioned, starting them off mining might not be the best thing to do for them.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#447 - 2014-07-16 23:56:19 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Here's an idea.....why don't ALL OF YOU go out tomorrow, find a newbie, and help them.

About 100 million skill points ago someone gave me a retriever....

Did it today. Whee we've got newbies in local and even on our jabber.

Rather give procurers though, much tankier. Then again, like mentioned, starting them off mining might not be the best thing to do for them.

Not at all. A "noob friendly" corp doing that crap is what drove my wife to bail on the game in short order a year ago. Finally got her to start her account back up, and trying to show her that the game isn't quite as ridiculous as she was led to believe. It's close, but not quite.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#448 - 2014-07-17 00:03:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
The CODE pistoleros I know would check before shooting a raw newbro. Probably would, I think. Well, it wouldn't be their intention to deliberately shoot a newbro. Not i it came to their intention that he was a newbro.

But I'm only speaking for the few guys I know and battle who are officially dedicated CODE agents. Random gankers out there, who knows. They have no mamas or daddies or anyone else to report to.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#449 - 2014-07-17 00:22:12 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Here's an idea.....why don't ALL OF YOU go out tomorrow, find a newbie, and help them.

About 100 million skill points ago someone gave me a retriever....

Did it today. Whee we've got newbies in local and even on our jabber.

Rather give procurers though, much tankier. Then again, like mentioned, starting them off mining might not be the best thing to do for them.

Not at all. A "noob friendly" corp doing that crap is what drove my wife to bail on the game in short order a year ago. Finally got her to start her account back up, and trying to show her that the game isn't quite as ridiculous as she was led to believe. It's close, but not quite.

No I mean mining isn't the most interesting.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#450 - 2014-07-17 03:24:07 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Here's an idea.....why don't ALL OF YOU go out tomorrow, find a newbie, and help them.

About 100 million skill points ago someone gave me a retriever....

Did it today. Whee we've got newbies in local and even on our jabber.

Rather give procurers though, much tankier. Then again, like mentioned, starting them off mining might not be the best thing to do for them.

Not at all. A "noob friendly" corp doing that crap is what drove my wife to bail on the game in short order a year ago. Finally got her to start her account back up, and trying to show her that the game isn't quite as ridiculous as she was led to believe. It's close, but not quite.

No I mean mining isn't the most interesting.

That's exactly what I meant. They basically bored her out of the game with that crap.
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#451 - 2014-07-17 03:40:00 UTC
I have helped da noobs in every game I have played. Ran rather large guilds that geared up our new players and taught them the basics of PvP then took them in the lakes for their first experience. Some liked PvP and went in that direction. Others did not and could help the guild through their PVE while remaining safe.

No matter what though the players, unless by choice, were not forced into a position where they stood no chance by game mechanics. That is what I see as a flaw in EvE. A new player could be the best natural pilot ever to grace EvE and stand no chance because the game mechanics and SP system do not allow for greater skill to win out in many circumstances.

It is hard to convince someone who knows they are good to "hang in there" when the cards are stacked against them repeatedly.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#452 - 2014-07-17 11:11:38 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


Baltec I stated specifically that NPC buy orders would exist to purchase these ships, from the very industrialists who build them. priced to ensure it is viable.

It is a Buff to industrialists, not a nerf, they will be building a vast quantity of them as players will be playing,and dying, not hiding.


And now we have frigate and destroyer producers being wiped out combined with a massive isk fountain.

Well done, you just broke the entire economy.


How are frigate and destroyer producers being wiped out if there are orders for them to produce them at a gaurenteed profit?

How is greater destruction an isk fountain?

This is GOOD for producers and GOOD for the economy and GOOD for new player retention and playstyle.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#453 - 2014-07-17 11:17:56 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Jenn aSide wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


Baltec I stated specifically that NPC buy orders would exist to purchase these ships, from the very industrialists who build them. priced to ensure it is viable.

It is a Buff to industrialists, not a nerf, they will be building a vast quantity of them as players will be playing,and dying, not hiding.


And now we have frigate and destroyer producers being wiped out combined with a massive isk fountain.

Well done, you just broke the entire economy.


That's the problem with 'brilliant idea' types like this, they don't critique their own ideas, and then get defensive when people easily blow them down lol. Almost everyone else can see why his idea is stunningly horrible.



Very well Jenn, if you decide that what is written is best ignored to reinforce your view, then not much point in writing is there?

Otherwise i am forced to assume that you failed to read, as when I say that there will be NPC buy orders to PURCHASE ships from manufacturers, I can only assume you stopped reading at NPC, and just blew a fuse.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#454 - 2014-07-17 11:26:37 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Rumtin wrote:
Ironic that the guy hosting annual Burn Jita would be complaining about Griefing. Give me a break.


Indeed.
Bottom line, looks like he is worried that Eve is REALLY dying, and if it dies, he might actually have to go back to his old income source of lawyering, if he is still allowed. That whole article reeks of desperation and self-interest.

goons did a 180 on renting, and now a 180 on getting new players to hang around.
I wonder if mittens will goes far as mandating that goons can't con new players , fresh from the new player zone he envsions, into handing over everything and joining goons for a mere 250 or 500 M security deposit, whatever it is.



If he has had an awakening of awareness, and has realised that what is good for EvE is also in his own self interest, I have no objection whatsoever in the fact that he, as well as all the other players of EvE benefit.

New player retention, and more players enjoying the game and having a GOOD experience is in everyone's interest apart from those who wish to see EvE and therefore CCP burn.

But it is clear in the forums there are MANY who either deliberately wish that to happen or are so unaware that they resist all changes that might resolve things no matter how small.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#455 - 2014-07-17 11:26:44 UTC
And he still doesn't see what an incredibly bad idea it would be.

The power of self delusion ladies and gentlemen.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#456 - 2014-07-17 11:44:23 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
The mission in the NPE where you lose a ship is a step in the right direction, but it ought to be your ship, the one you've lovingly cared for in the first few missions, not one given to you specially to lose. And you shouldn't be warned about it, it should be a "no win scenario", and it's explained to you afterwards that this is the nature of EVE (you will get blown up).

I think putting the Kobayashi Maru in NPE will cause more new player fallout than less. But maybe having an un-winnable test is what ensures Starfleet trains the best officers.

I am sure that Starfleet with multiple Planets populations can afford to wipe out all but the very best, and only retain a small elite cadre.

I do not believe CCP have that opportunity!

If however, obtaining replacement basic Frigates and destroyers did not require the player to mine and mission incessantly to replace, then perhaps your idea makes sense (unless CCP wish their main player base to be miners and missioners, and They state otherwise).

The main problem for new players, is not Griefing, ganking, or Awoxing, the issue for NEW players is the time cost involved in replacement.

These are issues that have two sides, and replacement of losses is less for more experienced players, unless they put 10billion in a hauler, and they Should spend a long time replacing them, and time to consider how bad an idea that was.

So in short, stop trying to change human nature, gankers will gank, griefers will grief, and new players are inexperienced and will die, lots.

Reduce the "time cost" of dying for new players, and they will dust themselves off, remember that capsuleers are immortal, and get back in the fight.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#457 - 2014-07-17 11:47:29 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And he still doesn't see what an incredibly bad idea it would be.

The power of self delusion ladies and gentlemen.

Kaarous, thank you for your enlightenment, I now understand how an idea considered over many months, discussed with multiple people, fails in the light of your opinion.

Such wisdom!

No wait.........Roll

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#458 - 2014-07-17 11:48:24 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


Reduce the "time cost" of dying for new players, and they will dust themselves off, remember that capsuleers are immortal, and get back in the fight.


The "time cost" for dying for new characters

1) Is microscopic compared to older characters

2) Is avoidable anyway if your clone is up to date

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#459 - 2014-07-17 11:49:29 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
an idea considered over many months, discussed with multiple people


is not, by default, a good idea

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#460 - 2014-07-17 11:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
Although it would be kind of hilarious to see how the fast the gushing isk faucet that idea (which literally allows miners to mine isk) would create would wash the entire economy down the toilet.

Assuming the vast isk-injection doesn't fry everything, it would create a hard floor on material value, that would cannon the cost of everything else through the roof - assuming any manufacturer bothers making anything else, and risk dealing with an unstable market instead of a guaranteed instant purchase at a set price. It would probably immolate the entire game!