EVE General Discussion

Indeed.
Bottom line, looks like he is worried that Eve is REALLY dying, and if it dies, he might actually have to go back to his old income source of lawyering, if he is still allowed. That whole article reeks of desperation and self-interest.

goons did a 180 on renting, and now a 180 on getting new players to hang around.
I wonder if mittens will goes far as mandating that goons can't con new players , fresh from the new player zone he envsions, into handing over everything and joining goons for a mere 250 or 500 M security deposit, whatever it is.

That's not true, i had no experience with sandbox anything and EVE hooked me, despite it's horrible 2007 NPE. That's because I'm the type of person who CAN get hooked on EVE: a 'tinkerer' type that likes to experiment with stuff, who doesn't get bored easily, who sees challenges rather than barriers, and who takes responsibility for one's own enjoyment.

At the end of the day, games work because they fill some psychological needs/wants of the player. Most MMOs and other video games work by letting a gamer feel powerful, skilled, talented and 'special' when in reality they probably aren't. Look at all the people playing sports video games and army shooter type games when they could join an adult sports league or the actual army lol.

EVE is not one of those games. EVE says "you are a scrub till you prove otherwise" and "figure it out your damn self". And this is why we love EVE, it treats us like ADULTS.



All of the "get more players" thinking i see revolves a lot around some bad ideas: such as "If you just show them the way, they will take it from there" . A variation if 'if you build it, they will come' lol.

This line of thinking doesn't account for the fact that if they couldn't figure it out for themselves, they might not be interested in doing it in the 1st place.

Human beings figure out the things they want to and ignore the rest. This is why kids can recite the lyrics to even the most incomprehensible pop song but can't tell you anything about their school work. long story short, if the person has the correct predisposition to be an EVE player, you won't HAVE to show him what he can do, he'll figure it out before you can tell him.

I think the 'focus' here is wrong. The idea presented here is "fix the NPE and players will stay. I think that's been disproven by 11 years of CCP 'fixing' the NPE. I think there is a stronger case for "CCP should do more to attract the right kinds of players in the 1st place". The 'right kind' being, again, self starter types that see challenges rather than barriers.

TL;DR, CCP should be advertising EVE in mags like Popular Mechanics and Soldier of Fortune (and hell, maybe here too :) ), not PCGamer or Tentonhammer.......




The answer there is 'make friends'. I was introduced to the game by a guy who stopped playing a few months after I started. I met some people running missions in the same system I was, and ended up joining their corp. Later io left, when to Faction Warfare (without a corp), made friends, when with those friends to null.

The game should be trying to compensate for players lack of social skill and/or initiative. Rather the game company should be more clear in advertising this game to people who can make friends.

Yes, I think that that is the concencus, they have worked out that if you make new players grind every time they lose a frigate or destroyer, the players soon give up anything remotely likely to get them killed.

The idea that the absence of free replacement of basic equipment is a good idea, is the most absurd and twisted thinking in the history of bad ideas if you actually want people to do stuff.


The goons saw this absurd state of affairs, and for their players, put it right. The ship replacement policy.

Whatever ones opinion about the organisation, one cannot dispute that was not only smart, but near genius, when everyone else seemed to think making the game a miserable experience was a good idea. Many still feel that making eve as miserable as possible for new players is somehow smart

So the suggestion is to copy this wonderfully effective concept for the whole of eve.

T1 frigates and destroyers are replaced on destruction, utilising the same rules and restrictions as insurance. One off purchase of unexpiring player insurance with 100% ship replacement for those ships only provided with authorised and approved T1 fittings.
These ships are provided by the insurance corporation, and NPC purchase orders are created to keep stocks up through central NPC purchasing to keep things in place for manufacturers.

New players will die in their thousands, reship, explore, and fight, and instead of leaving, or hiding levelling up their battleship or barge, will actually get out there and have fun.

You should probably look up the definition of griefing as it pertains to EVE because you're using it wrong here.

SRP is primarily for the good of the empire. For example, none of my Megathons get fully covered by SRP.

Yes, quite, I was suggesting "borrowing" his idea for T1 frigates and Destroyers only, after that new players should be over the worst and learned to have fun doing PVP and going everywhere and met lots of people and either died or shot them.

Oh the best bit is that the replacement ships are all fitted for PVP

Two points Jenn, firstly if you truly believe that making new players grind for a considerable time for 5 seconds of combat is going to encourage them to be risk-takers and NOT risk averse people who will hide from anything approaching a possibility of losing their ship, there is absolutely nothing that will convince you otherwise.

Secondly if an experienced ganker is going to be even vaguely interested in the benefit of a T1 fit T1 frigate or destroyer, his value judgement is somewhat confused.

A five year old child will bend down to pick up a shiny penny,

Would you?

I do believe that some HS ganking groups, have held out such an offer to encourage new players into their fold. And quite successfully. Are those groups also insane?

Any successful Group who wants new players to fight, explore, and die, has a basic ship replacement policy in light combat ships.
They understand that if people are grinding, grinding, grinding each time they lose they become conditioned to that. And then you have lost them, they end up just acquiring and improving stuff and hoarding isk till they leave.

There's the problem, human nature, make life miserable, and they avoid life.

There is the genius of the mittani's initial insight, he saw that, where others said, " but if it doesn't cost anything how can they value it?"
Was a completely ridiculous, and totally contrary to everything that is known about human nature.

In eve you are Immortal, you can never die! The current situation turns new players into wage slaves and immortal bitter pensioners.

Until they biomass themselves.

Or someone who understands how mindnumbingly wrong that idea you quote is, gets to them before CCP ruins them as long term customers.

And now we have frigate and destroyer producers being wiped out combined with a massive isk fountain.

Well done, you just broke the entire economy.

As one who spends most of his time "bearing" it up in highsec, I can state with complete certainty that Trammel does NOT belong in Eve. The universe is one cold, harsh, and cruel place. Deal with it.

That's the problem with 'brilliant idea' types like this, they don't critique their own ideas, and then get defensive when people easily blow them down lol. Almost everyone else can see why his idea is stunningly horrible.