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The Death Cannon

Author
asdfghjkl Niminen
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-07-15 18:29:59 UTC
I think its time a new ship is introduced to the game. A ship with the sole purpose of killing super capitals. We could even use a special structure or something.

Here is what am thinking... A bunch of those ships would be able to combine their fire power into one powerful super capital ass kicking weapon. Or we could introduce another structure to the game. THE DEATH CANNON ( we can talk about the name if you want)

This new structure can only be carried by a freighter. That way you wouldn't just have everybody in the fleet carrying one. Once deployed, there will obviously be a timer before the device can be online. The device will need fuel. I vote for coolant and liquid ozone. Once fully deployed the structure will be able to deal massive damage to supers or kill capitals with ease. 3 shots for a titan, 2 for a super carrier and one for a capital ship

Just to make sure that this isn't deployed all over the bloody place. They will only be able to be used in Null Sec. Once deployed, a second one can be deployed but nowhere near the first. The fuel cost to fire up one of those puppies should be freaking high. Something that only alliances/coalitions could handle. A fully fueled death cannon can be fired 5 times (don't know what cycle time should be). There should also be a draw back for having to many death cannons anchored in a system. That's right, you wont be able to turn all your poses into the death star :). This structure would also be able to deployed away from a pos. Anywhere in space.

With this, supers will be at a greater risk when deployed. If the opposing force doesn't take out the cannon, they will be losing caps on a scale that would make B-R look petty.

We can even ad game-play around the cannon if an alliance wants to anchor one just for defensive purposes. The cannon would need maintenance every now and then. A small amount of fuel would be used by the structure to keep it combat ready. If the structure isn't maintained well, it would take longer to online when needed.


Not very knowledgeable when it comes to HP of structures, so ill leave you guys to determine what the HP should be. A new skill book will be added to use the cannon. Skill book will lower the fuel cost and online time. The cannon cannot be fired from within a pos. Fc would delegate who is going to fire the cannon when the fleet is created.

Right now, the only way to counter a super blob is another super blob. Not fun for the other people in an engagement who cant afford a super or doesn't want to be tied down to one ship.


Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#2 - 2014-07-15 18:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
Shocked


Why do I always have to be the first to see stuff like this ?

And I have read almost the same a while ago, I am sure you will find it if you try and read the responses. (Even the wording of the first two paragraphs seems familiar... gonna check that)

And why don't you post with your super-flying-alt ? Don't wanna look stupid in front of your corp and fleet mates? Got none ? Worse !
Dhaq
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-07-15 18:44:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Dhaq
Bigger and even less accessible to the majority of the population is not good. See the proliferation of supers and the current state of null.

The problem with a null only ship is that you have to be in null to have one. Thus if you are not in null when they are release, you will not be getting one. The major blocs will build theirs and then control the production like today's supers. Nothing changed, except the bar is even now higher.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2014-07-15 18:59:20 UTC
I'd rather be able to use my caps, thanks. Something like this would be spammed mercilessly in every cap fight throughout new eden, right up until nobody bothered bringing caps/supers anymore.

We need MORE of a reason to see caps and supers on the field, so that more of them will die. We do not need a reason to never log those particular characters in again.
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#5 - 2014-07-15 19:03:19 UTC
This would also need to be usable in WH space as well if implemented.

However, there should only be one and it should be named BADI DEA
Professor Solus
The Chicago School
#6 - 2014-07-15 20:23:20 UTC
asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:
blah blah supercaps blah blah new mechanics blah blah


Dreadnoughts

/thread
asdfghjkl Niminen
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-07-15 21:56:00 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Shocked


Why do I always have to be the first to see stuff like this ?

And I have read almost the same a while ago, I am sure you will find it if you try and read the responses. (Even the wording of the first two paragraphs seems familiar... gonna check that)

And why don't you post with your super-flying-alt ? Don't wanna look stupid in front of your corp and fleet mates? Got none ? Worse !



Why cant eve players ever give constructive criticism. Its always... shut up you noob..... you dont know anything..... this is a horrible idea..... In all the threads i've read, nobody gives ideas on how someone's idea good be better. Null stagnation will never be fixed if this is the attitude the community seems to have. We are just gunna wait for magical ideas to fall out of the sky and fix everything.

So many smart people in eve but yet we cant get anywhere
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#8 - 2014-07-15 22:20:40 UTC
Hey, I just came across something that relates to what you just pointed at. - Well, yours is not 'that' bad, but still, something to consider.

I had people like my critique, thank me, even close their threads as a response after recognizing some of the mistakes they made or things they missed in their logic or conclusion. But of course, there is the faceplams and the in denial living deluded 'best idea ever - why you hate on me' guy.

With my first reply I tried to incite you a bit out of your corner to really explain and maybe bring some expertise to the table so we can evaluate your idea better to see if it has some merit or if its just thrown out there to sound important. And bringing the bifg guns out "change supers" "New anti super weapon system" with some complicated mechanics and rules dragged by the hairs to pretend there is some effort or balance considered in the proposal .... excuse us, if we look skeptic and tickle you a bit to see what you are made of.

And a 2 month acc and 2 likes doesn't help credibility. Not that its 'ad hominum' in its core, but there is some trust issues there right away. Usually I give the message a benefit of a doubt, even answer with facts to the xxx same thread and point to previous discussions - and sometimes it does not convince me.

So get on it, convince me.


Lothros Andastar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-07-15 22:52:21 UTC
Dreadnoughts, Titans and Fighter Bombers all fill this role.
asdfghjkl Niminen
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-07-15 23:02:47 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
I'd rather be able to use my caps, thanks. Something like this would be spammed mercilessly in every cap fight throughout new eden, right up until nobody bothered bringing caps/supers anymore.

We need MORE of a reason to see caps and supers on the field, so that more of them will die. We do not need a reason to never log those particular characters in again.



And i suppose we just forget about the new players to eve. If they cant get into a cap/super, they stay docked or go run missions. Not long after they will just leave because having to train for months to be able to get into fights is something nobody is willing to do. That is the future of eve i see coming. No new blood because all the vets are in caps and it will take to long to catch up.


The way i see it, we will never agree on a way to combat stagnation or power projection. Eve will not be to appealing to new people and then the vets will simply get bored.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2014-07-15 23:12:45 UTC
asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
I'd rather be able to use my caps, thanks. Something like this would be spammed mercilessly in every cap fight throughout new eden, right up until nobody bothered bringing caps/supers anymore.

We need MORE of a reason to see caps and supers on the field, so that more of them will die. We do not need a reason to never log those particular characters in again.



And i suppose we just forget about the new players to eve. If they cant get into a cap/super, they stay docked or go run missions. Not long after they will just leave because having to train for months to be able to get into fights is something nobody is willing to do. That is the future of eve i see coming. No new blood because all the vets are in caps and it will take to long to catch up.


The way i see it, we will never agree on a way to combat stagnation or power projection. Eve will not be to appealing to new people and then the vets will simply get bored.



But forcing caps to never undock/log in just puts the former capital pilots into very highly skilled subcaps.

What does this have to do with newbies anyway? If I'm flying my dread, I couldn't kill a newbie if I wanted to. If I can't use my dread, I'll be flying a subcap, which can kill newbies quite easily.

Pretty sure you don't rebalance caps by making them useless either.
asdfghjkl Niminen
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-07-15 23:18:55 UTC
Lothros Andastar wrote:
Dreadnoughts, Titans and Fighter Bombers all fill this role.



The idea is there should be a option other than countering the enemy with more of your own caps.. Since the death cannon is not welcomed. How about giving dreads a second siege option. One more geared towards killing supers. There would be a draw back to using a dread with that siege option. That way smaller alliances can be a pain to larger enemies if they are willing to take the risks.

Or we could just wait it out and hope enough people from both sides get so bored they decide to burn it all. Could happen, the old NC got so complacent they got steam rolled the the RUS.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#13 - 2014-07-15 23:19:35 UTC
asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Shocked


Why do I always have to be the first to see stuff like this ?

And I have read almost the same a while ago, I am sure you will find it if you try and read the responses. (Even the wording of the first two paragraphs seems familiar... gonna check that)

And why don't you post with your super-flying-alt ? Don't wanna look stupid in front of your corp and fleet mates? Got none ? Worse !



Why cant eve players ever give constructive criticism. Its always... shut up you noob..... you dont know anything..... this is a horrible idea..... In all the threads i've read, nobody gives ideas on how someone's idea good be better. Null stagnation will never be fixed if this is the attitude the community seems to have. We are just gunna wait for magical ideas to fall out of the sky and fix everything.

So many smart people in eve but yet we cant get anywhere


I think you're the one on the wrong end here.

First of all, negative criticism is still constructive. Make sure you understand that. Knowing and understanding are two separate things.

Secondly, he doesn't give a **** about how good or bad your idea is here, he's pointing out that such a topic already exists and that posting it again is a waste of time, even more so because that existing thread should already have a lot of feedback on the similar idea so that you may possible reformat to change yours.

AND finally, regarding the actual idea I can never see this as ever being a possible change to happen to EVE because titans are that very weapon for each other. They have no other purpose than to do that and make jump bridges. They ARE the anti-capital capital.

Making a smaller version (such as something along the lines of a bomber or attack BC) would be incredibly unfair to the veterans that have spent all their time and effort to get these large ships. Killing them shouldn't be easy and should be done with proper coordination and tactics.

The Drake is a Lie

Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#14 - 2014-07-15 23:24:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
I'd rather be able to use my caps, thanks. Something like this would be spammed mercilessly in every cap fight throughout new eden, right up until nobody bothered bringing caps/supers anymore.

We need MORE of a reason to see caps and supers on the field, so that more of them will die. We do not need a reason to never log those particular characters in again.



And i suppose we just forget about the new players to eve. If they cant get into a cap/super, they stay docked or go run missions. Not long after they will just leave because having to train for months to be able to get into fights is something nobody is willing to do. That is the future of eve i see coming. No new blood because all the vets are in caps and it will take to long to catch up.


The way i see it, we will never agree on a way to combat stagnation or power projection. Eve will not be to appealing to new people and then the vets will simply get bored.

See, this is exactly what I am talking about. Now you reveal the lack of competent information and experience, not only the game, but arguing itself. You misunderstand the post, misread the quotes and then start arguing with unrelated references.

Any sentence or connected strain of thoughts with "new players" and "supers" is so beyond any rational connection that it is actually to dumb to point out. But this way of talking, can hardly call it arguing, is nothing uncommon, in another post, I **** you not, someone said "It is brutal that beginners are forced to train so many skills to get into command ships" . How can they expect to be taken seriously or you for that matter?

And 'player retention' and 'new players' for example are just emotional placeholders or in this case even emotional hostages. "Listen now or you are against new players", "Listen now or you are against retaining players" and that, in your inner conclusion, inadvertently means you are against the game itself and whatever you say is from now on wrong. WRONG!

And no strawman or ad hominum, I am not evaluating 'your argument' by the image I have of you, I am evaluating 'you' by the impression your words leave behind. Words, not even bad arguments or arguments at all.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2014-07-15 23:31:13 UTC
asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:
Lothros Andastar wrote:
Dreadnoughts, Titans and Fighter Bombers all fill this role.



The idea is there should be a option other than countering the enemy with more of your own caps.. Since the death cannon is not welcomed. How about giving dreads a second siege option. One more geared towards killing supers. There would be a draw back to using a dread with that siege option. That way smaller alliances can be a pain to larger enemies if they are willing to take the risks.

Or we could just wait it out and hope enough people from both sides get so bored they decide to burn it all. Could happen, the old NC got so complacent they got steam rolled the the RUS.



Dreads ALREADY do this...
asdfghjkl Niminen
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-07-15 23:41:49 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
I'd rather be able to use my caps, thanks. Something like this would be spammed mercilessly in every cap fight throughout new eden, right up until nobody bothered bringing caps/supers anymore.

We need MORE of a reason to see caps and supers on the field, so that more of them will die. We do not need a reason to never log those particular characters in again.



And i suppose we just forget about the new players to eve. If they cant get into a cap/super, they stay docked or go run missions. Not long after they will just leave because having to train for months to be able to get into fights is something nobody is willing to do. That is the future of eve i see coming. No new blood because all the vets are in caps and it will take to long to catch up.


The way i see it, we will never agree on a way to combat stagnation or power projection. Eve will not be to appealing to new people and then the vets will simply get bored.

See, this is exactly what I am talking about. Now you reveal the lack of competent information and experience, not only the game, but arguing itself. You misunderstand the post, misread the quotes and then start arguing with unrelated references.

Any sentence or connected strain of thoughts with "new players" and "supers" is so beyond any rational connection that it is actually to dumb to point out. But this way of talking, can hardly call it arguing, is nothing uncommon, in another post, I **** you not, someone said "It is brutal that beginners are forced to train so many skills to get into command ships" . How can they expect to be taken seriously or you for that matter?

And 'player retention' and 'new players' for example are just emotional placeholders or in this case even emotional hostages. "Listen now or you are against new players", "Listen now or you are against retaining players" and that, in your inner conclusion, inadvertently means you are against the game itself and whatever you say is from now on wrong. WRONG!

And no strawman or ad hominum, I am not evaluating 'your argument' by the image I have of you, I am evaluating 'you' by the impression your words leave behind. Words, not even bad arguments or arguments at all.




Here is the simple reality... CCP would not be able to keep this game going without increasing their income. Income that only comes from new accounts. Unless you want to keep making new accounts. What i was trying to say is that with the current state of null, only supers and caps are relevant in engagements. Ships that new players cant get into unless they out in months of time. Nobody is going to that especially if they want to play casually. If we find a way to keep the sub cap relevant, we may keep a window open for new people to enjoy the game, not shoved to the side because of low skill points.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#17 - 2014-07-15 23:55:22 UTC
Am I to assume that these are system wide weapons or only on grid ones? i might of missed it in the OP
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#18 - 2014-07-15 23:57:14 UTC
The solution is not "more" of anything.

That's just power creep. And it's already bad enough in EVE without adding stuff like this.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#19 - 2014-07-16 00:07:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
K, I ll do that like in the other thread, step by step.
asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:
Here is the simple reality... CCP would not be able to keep this game going without increasing their income.

Assumption. Facts and data please. Subscription have been similar over the course of years with ups and downs, CPP and EVE is still here against all the other flamed out games. So go, data please.

Quote:
Income that only comes from new accounts. Unless you want to keep making new accounts.

Wrong conclusion and even based on a false assumption. It is about keeping a certain amount of paying players or an equal exchange of new vs old ones. Stop believing in the endless growth myth.

Quote:
What i was trying to say is that with the current state of null, only supers and caps are relevant in engagements.

Assumption, wrong again. Though I am not much in null, I can see even from here, that a lot of other ships are viable. Its down to pilots, numbers, intel, counterintel, organization and a good command and opportunity.

Quote:
Ships that new players cant get into unless they out in months of time.

All ships are months, years out if you want to fly them proper, stop holding the new player image hostage.

Quote:
Nobody is going to that especially if they want to play casually. If we find a way to keep the sub cap relevant, we may keep a window open for new people to enjoy the game, not shoved to the side because of low skill points.

Cant do more quotes, so I do it again part by part.:

Nobody ... :Assumption about what is the right/wrong way to play, casual is btw. the right way to get annoying long time skills down.

If we... :Assumption and false observation, they are relevant, just not in your limited perception, imagination. I for instance will never go into caps, probably not even Marauders, though I am not set on those.

we may ... low skillpoints: Wrong, every pilot can be used to matter, low skillpoints is no hindrance, only your own perception/imagination as a (new) player and commander using them.

And that should show you how much at fault you are Roll


PS: And besides, we are completely off the topic and I will retract myself from this nonsense now. I did what I came here to do, either support and further or oppose and prevent a suggestion or unmask it as redundant.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#20 - 2014-07-16 00:14:02 UTC
...so Doomsdays aren't death cannons after all?
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