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Super Capital Orders (New Mirror)

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hellswindstaff
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#41 - 2014-07-15 15:33:31 UTC
thanks Goliath for update. Big smile
Whapbamalooba
Perkone
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-07-15 15:34:57 UTC
Noooooooooooo! Almost had an avatar! If only supers and titans were seeded :D
hellswindstaff
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#43 - 2014-07-15 15:57:57 UTC
Good lod let's rejoice they arent.
24-7 cap blobs = zero testing or bughunting
Whapbamalooba
Perkone
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-07-15 16:09:44 UTC
hellswindstaff wrote:
Good lod let's rejoice they arent.
24-7 cap blobs = zero testing or bughunting



Yeah I guess if you cannot fly a super, dw I understand your rage and fury.
Brent Anders
Project Pendragon
#45 - 2014-07-15 16:16:04 UTC
Yeah, iam also strictly against the seeding of supercaps for the sole reason of lolblobs everywhere (And nofun doing the nofun stuff turned up to eleven)

Yet the plan of 2 weeks mirrors is also a little bitter, where you could use the 2+ months of the usual mirroring to actively play out sov and cap industrie, and also do a somewhat different skill approach to see how thnigs would go out. Sissis primary is still bughunting i know, but you could also "Test" gamplay ideas and tactics without the risk of a multibillion KMs (And e-peen weaving) or the support of a always ready 200+ fleet to fend of hotdrop and derp moments (Which most of teh time just leads to even better hotdrop and derp moments)

For the Industrial problem i still think a reduced job time would do great, since no one will build something (let alone haul) taking hours to set up, knowing it never will get finished to test it out. The "All people who meet skill preqs" option also makes the whole industrial part of the thing pretty much obsolete. There was and is always a demand for supers on sissi, so some people where activly testing sov/pos/industrial/cyno/fleet etc. stuff on sissi by simply meeting this demand, and i personally like it to give other players the stuff they want and need to test around with.

And with the 2 weeks basis i personally see no more reason to actively invest time into something, where nothing comes out from anymore (Exept UI testing perhaps)

Just my two cents on this, and i will still join any open mass test you anounce, but if this is the new way, cap/supercap and sov/pos testing is pretty much dead (not to mention research) in my eyes.
hellswindstaff
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#46 - 2014-07-15 16:23:01 UTC  |  Edited by: hellswindstaff
Whapbamalooba wrote:
hellswindstaff wrote:
Good lod let's rejoice they arent.
24-7 cap blobs = zero testing or bughunting



Yeah I guess if you cannot fly a super, dw I understand your rage and fury.


Actually I have a TQ Aeon and a Nyx.Which means I don't require building them.

So much for that idea.

Seems like the amount of mass testing for this industry was a little bit low compared to other releases.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#47 - 2014-07-15 16:25:16 UTC
Brent Anders wrote:
Yeah, iam also strictly against the seeding of supercaps for the sole reason of lolblobs everywhere (And nofun doing the nofun stuff turned up to eleven)

Yet the plan of 2 weeks mirrors is also a little bitter, where you could use the 2+ months of the usual mirroring to actively play out sov and cap industrie, and also do a somewhat different skill approach to see how thnigs would go out. Sissis primary is still bughunting i know, but you could also "Test" gamplay ideas and tactics without the risk of a multibillion KMs (And e-peen weaving) or the support of a always ready 200+ fleet to fend of hotdrop and derp moments (Which most of teh time just leads to even better hotdrop and derp moments)

For the Industrial problem i still think a reduced job time would do great, since no one will build something (let alone haul) taking hours to set up, knowing it never will get finished to test it out. The "All people who meet skill preqs" option also makes the whole industrial part of the thing pretty much obsolete. There was and is always a demand for supers on sissi, so some people where activly testing sov/pos/industrial/cyno/fleet etc. stuff on sissi by simply meeting this demand, and i personally like it to give other players the stuff they want and need to test around with.

And with the 2 weeks basis i personally see no more reason to actively invest time into something, where nothing comes out from anymore (Exept UI testing perhaps)

Just my two cents on this, and i will still join any open mass test you anounce, but if this is the new way, cap/supercap and sov/pos testing is pretty much dead (not to mention research) in my eyes.


So if there was like, a 10x multiplier to research/manufacturing times, that would be "a good thing"?

EDIT: 10x faster, not 10x slower.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
hellswindstaff
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#48 - 2014-07-15 16:28:45 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Brent Anders wrote:
Yeah, iam also strictly against the seeding of supercaps for the sole reason of lolblobs everywhere (And nofun doing the nofun stuff turned up to eleven)

Yet the plan of 2 weeks mirrors is also a little bitter, where you could use the 2+ months of the usual mirroring to actively play out sov and cap industrie, and also do a somewhat different skill approach to see how thnigs would go out. Sissis primary is still bughunting i know, but you could also "Test" gamplay ideas and tactics without the risk of a multibillion KMs (And e-peen weaving) or the support of a always ready 200+ fleet to fend of hotdrop and derp moments (Which most of teh time just leads to even better hotdrop and derp moments)

For the Industrial problem i still think a reduced job time would do great, since no one will build something (let alone haul) taking hours to set up, knowing it never will get finished to test it out. The "All people who meet skill preqs" option also makes the whole industrial part of the thing pretty much obsolete. There was and is always a demand for supers on sissi, so some people where activly testing sov/pos/industrial/cyno/fleet etc. stuff on sissi by simply meeting this demand, and i personally like it to give other players the stuff they want and need to test around with.

And with the 2 weeks basis i personally see no more reason to actively invest time into something, where nothing comes out from anymore (Exept UI testing perhaps)

Just my two cents on this, and i will still join any open mass test you anounce, but if this is the new way, cap/supercap and sov/pos testing is pretty much dead (not to mention research) in my eyes.


So if there was like, a 10x multiplier to research/manufacturing times, that would be "a good thing"?

EDIT: 10x faster, not 10x slower.


CCP GOLIATH endless blobs of supers on Sisi is never a good thing. Unless PVH became the default test system and moveme just moved cap ships to 6-c and all others to PVH.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#49 - 2014-07-15 16:56:33 UTC
Not a supercap builder myself, but it seems to me there's a fairly simple solution, a SISI only implant (unpublished on TQ) which gives 99% reduction to build time.

Seed them at the usual 100 isk and that way you can plug them in and tear them out as much as necessary.
hellswindstaff
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#50 - 2014-07-15 17:07:52 UTC
Well if it was to actually test a super that would be great. But most people just want to build them to blob combat areas with massive cap fleets.
OMEGA REDUX
Last Resort Inn
#51 - 2014-07-15 18:07:13 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Hey folks,

I understand that the mirroring cadence can be troubling to you, particularly relating to building things that take a long time. The short answer is that we mirror as and when we need it for testing purposes. In this instance we need a mirror to get relevant data onto the Sisi DB so that we can perform another upgrade test to ensure that our deployment next week will be smooth and on time.

Moving forward, we are actually trying to make mirrors on a regular cadence (though there will always be exceptions) but also to increase their frequency to as much as every 2 weeks. Obviously this has some problems and we would be very receptive to hearing them (more dedicated feedback threads will go up nearer the time, but I'm now subscribed to this thread so feel free to post here too), but it also addresses one of the most oft-asked things, which is the lack of frequency of mirrors. So, with that in mind, let's hear some ideas (like Orny's above) of how we could go about mitigating the issues that come with frequent mirrors. If at all possible, bear in mind that Sisi cannot be a special little flower and have massive code differences from TQ, or it invalidates itself as a test environment.

seed everything on the market and stop excluding the faction/super/titan/etc stuff. It's way too difficult to test things if your build includes those items as it currently is on SISI.

And to those who fear titan/super blobs on sisi...it's sisi for crying out loud not TQ who gives a **** if they blob everything is 100 isk buy a new ship and the rules of sisi keep too much crazyness in check good enough
Saeka Tyr
Sanctuary of Shadows
#52 - 2014-07-15 18:21:26 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:


So if there was like, a 10x multiplier to research/manufacturing times, that would be "a good thing"?

EDIT: 10x faster, not 10x slower.


Actually, yes.

Is something like that easy to implement?

Worst case you could make a special slot 11 booster/implant that speeds up those industry times accordingly, and seed it specifically on sisi. And have fun watching people go mental when they see the database dump.
Whapbamalooba
Perkone
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-07-15 18:24:44 UTC
OMEGA REDUX wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Hey folks,

I understand that the mirroring cadence can be troubling to you, particularly relating to building things that take a long time. The short answer is that we mirror as and when we need it for testing purposes. In this instance we need a mirror to get relevant data onto the Sisi DB so that we can perform another upgrade test to ensure that our deployment next week will be smooth and on time.

Moving forward, we are actually trying to make mirrors on a regular cadence (though there will always be exceptions) but also to increase their frequency to as much as every 2 weeks. Obviously this has some problems and we would be very receptive to hearing them (more dedicated feedback threads will go up nearer the time, but I'm now subscribed to this thread so feel free to post here too), but it also addresses one of the most oft-asked things, which is the lack of frequency of mirrors. So, with that in mind, let's hear some ideas (like Orny's above) of how we could go about mitigating the issues that come with frequent mirrors. If at all possible, bear in mind that Sisi cannot be a special little flower and have massive code differences from TQ, or it invalidates itself as a test environment.

seed everything on the market and stop excluding the faction/super/titan/etc stuff. It's way too difficult to test things if your build includes those items as it currently is on SISI.

And to those who fear titan/super blobs on sisi...it's sisi for crying out loud not TQ who gives a **** if they blob everything is 100 isk buy a new ship and the rules of sisi keep too much crazyness in check good enough


Can't agree more, why not have some combat areas that are cap free and let it be in the rules?
hellswindstaff
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#54 - 2014-07-15 19:13:26 UTC  |  Edited by: hellswindstaff
Whapbamalooba wrote:
OMEGA REDUX wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Hey folks,

I understand that the mirroring cadence can be troubling to you, particularly relating to building things that take a long time. The short answer is that we mirror as and when we need it for testing purposes. In this instance we need a mirror to get relevant data onto the Sisi DB so that we can perform another upgrade test to ensure that our deployment next week will be smooth and on time.

Moving forward, we are actually trying to make mirrors on a regular cadence (though there will always be exceptions) but also to increase their frequency to as much as every 2 weeks. Obviously this has some problems and we would be very receptive to hearing them (more dedicated feedback threads will go up nearer the time, but I'm now subscribed to this thread so feel free to post here too), but it also addresses one of the most oft-asked things, which is the lack of frequency of mirrors. So, with that in mind, let's hear some ideas (like Orny's above) of how we could go about mitigating the issues that come with frequent mirrors. If at all possible, bear in mind that Sisi cannot be a special little flower and have massive code differences from TQ, or it invalidates itself as a test environment.

seed everything on the market and stop excluding the faction/super/titan/etc stuff. It's way too difficult to test things if your build includes those items as it currently is on SISI.

And to those who fear titan/super blobs on sisi...it's sisi for crying out loud not TQ who gives a **** if they blob everything is 100 isk buy a new ship and the rules of sisi keep too much crazyness in check good enough


Can't agree more, why not have some combat areas that are cap free and let it be in the rules?

Not going to work because somebody will assign fighters from the undock and come haze you inside the "cap free" combat area.
and if the rules kept craziness in check then we wouldnt see people getting supercap blobbed on the undock. Let's throw that out of the window. Clammoring for all deadspace officer gear was a disaster last time they did it too btw. How realistic is your "test" when you are slogging through godtanks on a rupture. Not very I'm guessing. Current system is fine.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2014-07-15 19:27:09 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:

So if there was like, a 10x multiplier to research/manufacturing times, that would be "a good thing"?

EDIT: 10x faster, not 10x slower.

Yes. Also, speed up anchoring timers for things like TCUs, Ihubs, SBUs, etc: anything where the time is just there to make you sit around and wait.
Whapbamalooba
Perkone
Caldari State
#56 - 2014-07-15 19:44:59 UTC
hellswindstaff wrote:
Whapbamalooba wrote:
OMEGA REDUX wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Hey folks,

I understand that the mirroring cadence can be troubling to you, particularly relating to building things that take a long time. The short answer is that we mirror as and when we need it for testing purposes. In this instance we need a mirror to get relevant data onto the Sisi DB so that we can perform another upgrade test to ensure that our deployment next week will be smooth and on time.

Moving forward, we are actually trying to make mirrors on a regular cadence (though there will always be exceptions) but also to increase their frequency to as much as every 2 weeks. Obviously this has some problems and we would be very receptive to hearing them (more dedicated feedback threads will go up nearer the time, but I'm now subscribed to this thread so feel free to post here too), but it also addresses one of the most oft-asked things, which is the lack of frequency of mirrors. So, with that in mind, let's hear some ideas (like Orny's above) of how we could go about mitigating the issues that come with frequent mirrors. If at all possible, bear in mind that Sisi cannot be a special little flower and have massive code differences from TQ, or it invalidates itself as a test environment.

seed everything on the market and stop excluding the faction/super/titan/etc stuff. It's way too difficult to test things if your build includes those items as it currently is on SISI.

And to those who fear titan/super blobs on sisi...it's sisi for crying out loud not TQ who gives a **** if they blob everything is 100 isk buy a new ship and the rules of sisi keep too much crazyness in check good enough


Can't agree more, why not have some combat areas that are cap free and let it be in the rules?

Not going to work because somebody will assign fighters from the undock and come haze you inside the "cap free" combat area.
and if the rules kept craziness in check then we wouldnt see people getting supercap blobbed on the undock. Let's throw that out of the window. Clammoring for all deadspace officer gear was a disaster last time they did it too btw. How realistic is your "test" when you are slogging through godtanks on a rupture. Not very I'm guessing. Current system is fine.



My god!! Your rage! It was a suggestion as you are totally freaking out over the idea of supers and titans in eve.
hellswindstaff
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#57 - 2014-07-15 19:52:12 UTC
Whapbamalooba wrote:
hellswindstaff wrote:
Whapbamalooba wrote:
OMEGA REDUX wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Hey folks,

I understand that the mirroring cadence can be troubling to you, particularly relating to building things that take a long time. The short answer is that we mirror as and when we need it for testing purposes. In this instance we need a mirror to get relevant data onto the Sisi DB so that we can perform another upgrade test to ensure that our deployment next week will be smooth and on time.

Moving forward, we are actually trying to make mirrors on a regular cadence (though there will always be exceptions) but also to increase their frequency to as much as every 2 weeks. Obviously this has some problems and we would be very receptive to hearing them (more dedicated feedback threads will go up nearer the time, but I'm now subscribed to this thread so feel free to post here too), but it also addresses one of the most oft-asked things, which is the lack of frequency of mirrors. So, with that in mind, let's hear some ideas (like Orny's above) of how we could go about mitigating the issues that come with frequent mirrors. If at all possible, bear in mind that Sisi cannot be a special little flower and have massive code differences from TQ, or it invalidates itself as a test environment.

seed everything on the market and stop excluding the faction/super/titan/etc stuff. It's way too difficult to test things if your build includes those items as it currently is on SISI.

And to those who fear titan/super blobs on sisi...it's sisi for crying out loud not TQ who gives a **** if they blob everything is 100 isk buy a new ship and the rules of sisi keep too much crazyness in check good enough


Can't agree more, why not have some combat areas that are cap free and let it be in the rules?

Not going to work because somebody will assign fighters from the undock and come haze you inside the "cap free" combat area.
and if the rules kept craziness in check then we wouldnt see people getting supercap blobbed on the undock. Let's throw that out of the window. Clammoring for all deadspace officer gear was a disaster last time they did it too btw. How realistic is your "test" when you are slogging through godtanks on a rupture. Not very I'm guessing. Current system is fine.



My god!! Your rage! It was a suggestion as you are totally freaking out over the idea of supers and titans in eve.


It not rage friend. Its sticking up for the little guys who can't fly a super and will likely be blobbed by a fleet of inept fit and mass test sp warrior fleets of them. Personally I have 3 max skilled super pilots and two supers on TQ so the "idea" doesnt freak me out what so ever. If you ever tried to actually test something under those conditions of everything being seeded you woukld understand why it's a bad idea. Not everyone is goo goo ga ga over cap ships and for those who are the server shouldnt be catered to fit their whims.
Whapbamalooba
Perkone
Caldari State
#58 - 2014-07-15 20:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Whapbamalooba
Well come up with solutions then and actually solve the problem instead saying no no no and yet again no
hellswindstaff
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#59 - 2014-07-15 20:28:02 UTC
Whapbamalooba wrote:
Well come up with solutions then and actually solve the problem instead saying no no no and yet again no


I am all for solving the problem. Yet that leaves us with the problem of same people camping beacons 24-7 in Supercapitals.
Wedge Rancer
The Rogue Space Force
#60 - 2014-07-15 21:29:08 UTC
Goliath, I'm not quite sure how the coding behind the new teams work, but would it be possible to just seed teams with massive time reductions?