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Reaction to the new nullsec Anomalies.

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TheButcherPete
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2011-12-07 14:05:33 UTC  |  Edited by: TheButcherPete
EDIT: it didn't eat my post, silly EVEgate.

I liked my 2nd reply better.

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]
TheButcherPete
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2011-12-07 14:10:30 UTC
Not sure if the forum ate my first post, but...

I'm not complaining about ALL new anoms, I'm only talking about the Angel ones with radically increased Seraphim/Cheribum.
I can do Serpentis sanctums in a bloody Proteus because they only do therm/kin. The new Angel ones seem to do more EM than explo which isn't very Angel cartel-like at all ;)

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#23 - 2011-12-07 14:13:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
+1s all around to the posters who , like me, love the new anomalies. I've been having a blast learning the new triggers and exploring the changes to the lower end anoms I usually avoided (OMG Forlorn Den and Forlorn Rally Point lol). Breathed new life into anomalies, and introduced some RISK which was much needed.

At the same time, I do have another observation. CCP should be aware that not all anomalies (and NPC factions) are NOT the same, which is one of the problems. And HOW we do anoms means something too.

I have anom runner ships in Guristas and angel space (alt in angel space in a buddies renter corp) and I dual box a mach and tengu in both places. The angel ones ARE harder because of the EM damage, but easier because of the Angels lolEWAR (target paint my mach, please lol). The Guristas ones are more frustrating because of the jamming, but easier to tank.

Too many far off orbiting ships in the angel ones as well, I had to change my angel ratting Tengu to the same HML fit I use for guristas because using HAMs was getting tedious chasing those damn Cherubims..

I'm sure these issues crop up as well in other space, I'd hate to see the 1st spawn of a blood raider forsaken hub lol.

CCP should TWEAK the new anoms, not nerf them, I think the changes are on the right track mainly, just need more attention to individual npc faction differences.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#24 - 2011-12-07 14:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
also ccp fix yer darn forums :)
MC'SAKE
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-12-07 22:27:49 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/cGfol.jpg

just checking, this is working as intended? because my 3billion isk loki can hardly tank it. Especially when some webbing frigs spawn. It's A guristas hub btw and here I have allready killed 10+ ships of the spawn.
Ramron 0031
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2011-12-07 22:34:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramron 0031
new buffed anoms are great i'll really glad to see what CCP has done for the rest of us that can't run sanctums 23/7 due to RL to make isk. As a player that can only play for a couple hours a night the changes have actually drawn me back to logging in for a few hours a night again.

And for the OP, i still solo anoms in my mach, learn to adjust
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-12-07 22:54:21 UTC
Pink Marshmellow wrote:
Heh, you should have seen what CCP did to sleeper Class 5/6 sites a while ago, all the Battleships Neut you with the strength of a Bhaalgorn Neut.

Imagine if all the Nullsec anomaly battleship rats neuted you like sleepers do.

I think CCP should put heavy neuting on anomaly rats and see how Nullsec Dwellers respond.


You've obviously never ratted in Delve Roll
Phyress
Isumi Industries
#28 - 2011-12-08 10:32:05 UTC
MC'SAKE wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/cGfol.jpg

just checking, this is working as intended? because my 3billion isk loki can hardly tank it. Especially when some webbing frigs spawn. It's A guristas hub btw and here I have allready killed 10+ ships of the spawn.


What, your Cruiser can't tank the fire of over a dozen Battleships at once? The horror!

I approve of an increase in difficulty, especially if it is created by reducing predictability. Even if the risk of engaging NPCs will never approach that of engaging other players, any risk is more fun than no risk at all.
Fox Strongbow
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#29 - 2011-12-08 11:21:47 UTC
You know what, I too am randomly getting my ass kicked by hubs when they are epic spawned...

But you know what I did? I got a friend to come and help, and the ISK we each made per update was actually slightly better than soloing pre-crucible and I like it. It has forced me into playing with other people which is more fun anyway, and added an element of 'OSHIT' when you warp in to 15 battleship's optimal that I thought it was missing before.

Yeah I'll probably lose a ship or three when I'm getting over complacent now, yeah its more difficult and requires teamwork, but I actually kinda like it.

Also, if you want to get less owned solo but are unwilling to change your strategy/ fitting/ ship, nothing is stopping you from running easier anomalies!

I hope CCP perhaps does something to reduce the number of battleships since that's a bit silly, but not too much, I kinda like it now.

That said, tanking them is pretty out of the question in a Raven these days, it seems to be a 'point in opposite direction and RUN while throwing missiles over shoulder' affair at times xD

Fox
Enduros
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2011-12-08 21:05:28 UTC
I think everyone that is complaining either doesn't know how to actually fly ships manually or are really really bad at fitting. I love this change especially since it forces those with inferior ships into lower tier anoms and leaves havens for people with proper ooompf.


Oh and now running lower anoms doesn't actually cut into isk/h anymore, so for the most part people don't whine when havens are taken or occupied by overtanked low dps ships.
lachrymus
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2011-12-08 23:49:26 UTC
Fox Strongbow wrote:
You know what, I too am randomly getting my ass kicked by hubs when they are epic spawned...

But you know what I did? I got a friend to come and help, and the ISK we each made per update was actually slightly better than soloing pre-crucible and I like it. It has forced me into playing with other people which is more fun anyway, and added an element of 'OSHIT' when you warp in to 15 battleship's optimal that I thought it was missing before.

Yeah I'll probably lose a ship or three when I'm getting over complacent now, yeah its more difficult and requires teamwork, but I actually kinda like it.

Also, if you want to get less owned solo but are unwilling to change your strategy/ fitting/ ship, nothing is stopping you from running easier anomalies!

I hope CCP perhaps does something to reduce the number of battleships since that's a bit silly, but not too much, I kinda like it now.

That said, tanking them is pretty out of the question in a Raven these days, it seems to be a 'point in opposite direction and RUN while throwing missiles over shoulder' affair at times xD

Fox

Yes, this exactly.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#32 - 2011-12-09 02:36:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Enduros wrote:
I think everyone that is complaining either doesn't know how to actually fly ships manually or are really really bad at fitting. I love this change especially since it forces those with inferior ships into lower tier anoms and leaves havens for people with proper ooompf.


Oh and now running lower anoms doesn't actually cut into isk/h anymore, so for the most part people don't whine when havens are taken or occupied by overtanked low dps ships.


Very very well said. I just directed a corp mate to trying out the named rally points (especially forlorn) and Dens (especially forlorn again, on a side note, why does the FORSAKEN den suck but the forlorn rock?). Damn good isk per hour, escalates to 8/10s or 7/10s depending on the npc faction.

I really hope CCP doesn't water them down too much.
Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-12-09 02:44:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Elzon1
Seeing as I am affected by this I think I should add my two isk as well. I do angel havens out in 0.0, just so you know my perspective.

I'll just keep this simple. I fly a Vargur so it has an active tank that uses cap boosters to keep it going. Before this "expansion" I could tank a haven completely by myself and only use up about half my cap boosters I usually took with me, 29. Now, even after adjusting my fit, I couldn't possibly tank the entire site in one go. By the time I get to the last wave I have used all but 3 or 4 of my cap boosters. Realistically, the last wave is impossible for a Vargur to fully tank.

There are a few things that I think contribute to causing this. The first is that the new battleship spawns do significant EM damage which is not typical of the angel cartel. Whilst being non-typical it is also hard to balance one's resistances so as to tank such damage effectively. Another contributing factor is the fact that the battleships start doing damage at significantly longer range than the old spawns.

My previous method of doing these sites was to warp in at range, pop the smaller stuff if neccessary (warp scrambling or hard to hit frigs) and then start on the battleships. Because the battleships had significant distance to cover I could go ahead and pop one and significantly damage another one before they could begin applying dps. Sometimes I could even pop two before they actually began applying dps Twisted The new set of battleships like to stay at range and try to orbit you which doesn't help your effective dps.

As for what everyone is saying in terms of evolve or die I would wholeheartedly agree if it wasn't for the fact that the only thing CCP stated they wanted to accomplish was more isk per ehp. One would think they would have kept everything the same and simply changed the bounties. However, we all know this is CCP and they simply can't do such a thing. Creating new ship id's and attributes for each and every site would have been a pain in the butt and so they simply tried changing the ship types in the site. Even though they accomplished their stated goal of higher isk per ehp they also changed the dps, damage type, engagement range, and overall lowered the tankability of such sites considerably.

So, like one the devs said earlier things still need to be tweaked a bit.
Rod Blaine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2011-12-09 11:21:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Rod Blaine
MC'SAKE wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/cGfol.jpg

just checking, this is working as intended? because my 3billion isk loki can hardly tank it. Especially when some webbing frigs spawn. It's A guristas hub btw and here I have allready killed 10+ ships of the spawn.



A T2 proteus fit does it with ease. More incoming dps just means it's now more or less mandatory to go racial.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#35 - 2011-12-09 13:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Elzon1 wrote:
Seeing as I am affected by this I think I should add my two isk as well. I do angel havens out in 0.0, just so you know my perspective.

I'll just keep this simple. I fly a Vargur so it has an active tank that uses cap boosters to keep it going. Before this "expansion" I could tank a haven completely by myself and only use up about half my cap boosters I usually took with me, 29. Now, even after adjusting my fit, I couldn't possibly tank the entire site in one go. By the time I get to the last wave I have used all but 3 or 4 of my cap boosters. Realistically, the last wave is impossible for a Vargur to fully tank.

There are a few things that I think contribute to causing this. The first is that the new battleship spawns do significant EM damage which is not typical of the angel cartel. Whilst being non-typical it is also hard to balance one's resistances so as to tank such damage effectively. Another contributing factor is the fact that the battleships start doing damage at significantly longer range than the old spawns.

My previous method of doing these sites was to warp in at range, pop the smaller stuff if neccessary (warp scrambling or hard to hit frigs) and then start on the battleships. Because the battleships had significant distance to cover I could go ahead and pop one and significantly damage another one before they could begin applying dps. Sometimes I could even pop two before they actually began applying dps Twisted The new set of battleships like to stay at range and try to orbit you which doesn't help your effective dps.

As for what everyone is saying in terms of evolve or die I would wholeheartedly agree if it wasn't for the fact that the only thing CCP stated they wanted to accomplish was more isk per ehp. One would think they would have kept everything the same and simply changed the bounties. However, we all know this is CCP and they simply can't do such a thing. Creating new ship id's and attributes for each and every site would have been a pain in the butt and so they simply tried changing the ship types in the site. Even though they accomplished their stated goal of higher isk per ehp they also changed the dps, damage type, engagement range, and overall lowered the tankability of such sites considerably.

So, like one the devs said earlier things still need to be tweaked a bit.


A number of things come to mind.

-If havens are giving you trouble, do lower end anomalies, they pay almost as well and being faster to do means getting more escalation chances in the time it would have taken to do on single haven

-Havens giving a VARG tank problems? I tank angel havens (and sanctums and forsakens) fine with a machariel solo (mach gets no tank bonus like varg, but sig radius helps, also Mach gets fall off bonus lessening the affect of farther orbitting ships) Mach is an anom ship (fall off bonus), Varg is a lvl 4 MISSION (tracking bonus) ship aka you are using the wrong ship, mate. The old anom system just let you get away with using the wrong ship.

-And how you fit the VARG is important. Cap Boosters? Those are for missions/empire, not anomalies/null sec. I have a deadspace tank fit (most of which I got not with isk but from plex drops), cap stable and the only time I get in trouble in angel anoms now is in forsaken hubs when I accidentally spawn everything at once, but with no scramming ships in there it's not a problem and I have now learned all the triggers. (1200 dps also makes my gank my tank)

-Flying it solo. Every single angel plex problem I had flying the mach solo went away when i either brought a friend or started dual boxing with my alt in a tengu, splitting the DPS and killing everything so fast that it doesn't matter if you get full aggro.

The point is you and people like you got too used to the old ridiculously easy way anoms used to be, where they were solo ship farm heavens. It took me all of 2 days to adapt to the new anoms and didn't lose a single ship.

Adaptation should come long before asking ccp to water down something. .Nothing in Angel, Gurista, Serpentis or Sansha space needs to be changed regarding anoms, BR space is a whole nother ball park with the neuting.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#36 - 2011-12-09 15:11:26 UTC
Baram d'Orrin wrote:
It's not so much the changes of putting in more ships are bad.
It's just that the top 2 angel BS's have significant amounts of EM damage.


I've lost a Vargur to the EM in the havens while I wasn't used to the new triggers/spawns. You didn't find EM damage (Cherubim, Seraphim) in Havens before, now it's full of it. Usually it was just Thrones/Malakims (full expl)


Maybe it's the time to revise angels and make them like all the other rats eh, dual dmg typed?


That's a load of honk. Before the great anomaly nerf, Seraphs were one of the commonest BS types in Havens/Sanctums.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#37 - 2011-12-09 20:06:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Elzon1
Malcanis wrote:
Baram d'Orrin wrote:
Havens
Havens/Sanctums.


See the mistake? I do Bear

I too remember havens usually not having any Cherubim/Seraphim until the last spawn.

So most of the site you only had to tank explosive damage. Now, you must tank both explosive and em most of the site which is a little different.
Sayo Kisuke
CreoDron Technical RnD
#38 - 2011-12-09 21:22:59 UTC
Here are some tried and true fittings for sanctums/havens (and plexes too).

For sansha:

[Loki, sansha carebear]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

10MN Afterburner II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Medium Shield Booster II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
Prototype Cloaking Device I

Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier II
Medium Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I
Medium Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5


528 DPS + 600 DPS EM/THERM cap stable tank. Put on a deadspace shield booster and drop tracking computer for an amp = 1300+ dps tank cap stable for a 10/10 plex.

Delve ratting sucks because those blood raiders neut to hell - best ship i used was a Gila full passive tanked. It's not the most efficient but I'm lazy as hell. Keep 30+km away from the neuters and you will be okay but I've lost 2 ships being lazy/stupid before. Warp to anom @ 50km and pewpew


[Gila, pve sansha]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large Shield Extender II

Small 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Prototype Cloaking Device I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
[empty high slot]

Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Bouncer II x5
Curator II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5


433 DPS and 450dps passive tank. The sentries have 60km optimal + 42km falloff. Snipe snipe. Bring in another snipe pilot @ 100km for more pew (tornado? Naga? Oracle?)

Finally Guristas are the easiest in the world. Use a tengu duh. Use FOF kinetic missiles when u are getting permajammed:

[Tengu, pve]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN Afterburner II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Medium Shield Booster II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
5a Prototype Shield Support I

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Electronics - Obfuscation Manifold
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


686 DPS tanked (50/50 kin/therm) and 495 DPS w/ normal scourge while flying 633 m/s. Swap to deadspace shield booster and em/therm/kin tank w/ some deadspace deflection fields and you can do 1000 dps tank in a 10/10. Just kin/therm you can get 1500 dps tanked but you have to deal with those damn EM citadel torps being lobbed at ya...

Hope these fits help everyone. I've personally used every one of these when living up north and south.
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