These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

I have a Game Mechanics Question WEB vs Drone Damage
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Storm Airkian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-07-04 14:42:47 UTC
Hello,

I have searched through net but it seems no one did calcs bout this... My question is about light drone dps vs. a "Scrambled Frigate"
My astero can field 5 Light Drones of my choosing and once I scramble enemy frig is not supposed to make anything over 450m/s (almost never seen an enemy with AB in a frig) So unders these conditions, would having a web, and webbin my enemy increase my light drone dps significantly ? or not at all ? I usually run 2x Scramblers on my Astero to catch ppl with dual stabz, but for tough opponents who are on field with combat fit the secon scrambler is wasted, I am considering a Web or a Cap Booster for that midslot as the first "might" increase dps (or not) and the second would let my armor repper work for longer (Astero vs Astero fights can last more than a couple mins - so no smart*** trolling pls)

So to wrap up... Would webbing a scrambled frig (so he is at most 450m/s or such) increase the dps my light drones do to them or not ?? (Or for example not needed for warrior II's but helps for Hobgoblin II ?? )

Regards
The Lobsters
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-07-04 15:04:38 UTC
I believe this may be of interest to you.

o7

http://www.evealtruist.com/2012/02/drones-vs-frigates.html

That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested his claim.
Storm Airkian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-07-04 16:34:24 UTC
Many thx... Indeed it was very helpful for me,

o7
Veratrix
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-07-04 18:10:57 UTC
That article is 2 years old, and with the recent drone changes I'm not sure it is still entirely accurate. So take what you read there with a grain of salt.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-07-04 20:30:05 UTC
Test it yourself, with an alt or a friend.

Put some passive tank on the Guinea pig frigate.

Use the log window (timestamped) to calculate dps.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
The Lobsters
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-07-04 22:15:04 UTC
Veratrix wrote:
That article is 2 years old, and with the recent drone changes I'm not sure it is still entirely accurate. So take what you read there with a grain of salt.


Ah yes, I've been unsubbed for a while. The drone changes are more extensive than I had first realised. About bloody time.

That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested his claim.
Val Karan
Knights of the Empire
#7 - 2014-07-08 08:22:07 UTC
I've always thought these drones must be wrecking their own damage with their high orbit speeds... and according to that link it's true too, lol.
JAF Anders
Adenosine Inhibition
#8 - 2014-07-08 16:27:30 UTC
Plenty of people fit afterburners to their frigates.

The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.
Storm Airkian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-07-08 23:19:03 UTC
Yep it seems drones do ruin their own dps with their fast orbiting just like we do in frigates...

Btw.. Frigs with AB is definitely no concern to me .... I have never ever seen one in my Astero yet, and even when I see one, it will still be irrelevant as I am more interested in the other 99% of frigates...

That article being 2yr. old still seems quite helpful but I would be very happy hear other theory crafters / testers views about the issue.
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#10 - 2014-07-10 17:30:04 UTC
T2 hobs orbit at 660m/s at close to their optimal, so any target moving slower will be tracked perfectly.
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-07-10 17:59:54 UTC
Plato Forko wrote:
T2 hobs orbit at 660m/s at close to their optimal, so any target moving slower will be tracked perfectly.



i thought so too, but in practice even on a target moving slower than that (webbed and scram) they do happen to get grazing shots and more rarely misses
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#12 - 2014-07-10 19:21:31 UTC
my understanding is that has to do with how often the target changes vectors. if the fight is a brawl and you're going roughly the same speed as your target, they could be able to orbit you <1000m which means their vector is constantly changing as you both go 'round and 'round. since the drones are orbiting at a fixed speed and the constant vector changes are forcing them to travel further on the outside of the orbit, they have to turn tighter on the inside to compensate and transversal shoots up.

the way to deal with that is either to have the speed advantage, where you can force the target to move either towards or away from you, or hope that the target has slower tracking and needs to orbit further out
God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#13 - 2014-07-14 18:48:55 UTC
The article still holds true today. Light drones are always better vs unwebbed AB frigs or unscrammed MWD frigs while mediums and heavies are better against AB frigs with one web or scrammed MWD frigs. Once you have multiple webs lights are the best once again.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#14 - 2014-07-14 19:55:28 UTC
You want to make sure they don't kite away - use a web.

You want your drones to do max damage - use a painter.

You want to do both, then you fit the web and I'll fit the painter. It's that easy.


Have your better tanked brawler get in there and web the guy and the painting guy can be a stand off ship with more damage and less tank. If you're going it solo, I don't think there is a frigate that can do it all.
Terhiss
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#15 - 2014-07-14 20:23:40 UTC
Unless a target is stationary or near-stationary, there will always exist an element of non predictability in vector alignments. The trajectories are much more similar to ellipses rather than circles, which means the weapon firing cycles have a great role in it.

If a weapon is firing when the ship is slingshooting from one of the ellipses focal points (edges), thus reducing transversal degrees, the tracking on the target will be increased and there will be better hit accuracy. That is something that is beyond pilot manual control in Eve.

So its impossible to have mathematically accurate predictions when it comes to 1v1.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#16 - 2014-07-14 21:41:24 UTC
Here is the dev blog that addresses the recent changes that might effect this:

Quote:
We are also making some new changes to the ranges that drones attack and orbit in, that affect the balance between drones from different factions:

All combat drones will now orbit and attack at longer ranges than before. Light drones will be orbit between 40% and 60% farther than before, medium drones between 180% and 220% farther, and heavy drones will see their orbit range increased by between 1300% and 1500%. Optimal ranges and attack ranges are rising accordingly. Tracking speed values are decreasing to compensate, but all drones will track better than before when at their optimal ranges.

This change will have a couple important benefits:

It will mean that drones lose less damage from the transversal caused by their own orbit velocity. Drones simply orbit with no concern for transversal management and that can often cause unintitive reductions in DPS, especially against small and slow targets. With this change the negative effects of a drone's own velocity will be reduced.
It means that drones will be less likely to overshoot their targets. Drones approaching a target with their MWD on can sometimes overshoot their target by a large margin, preventing them from applying their damage early in an engagement. With this change, the area in which a drone will deactivate its MWD and start orbitting is much larger and a drone is more likely to hit it on the first approach.
This also gives us another method through which to differentiate drones from the different factions. Amarr and Caldari drones will recieve a larger range increase than Minmatar and Gallente drones. This provides these middle drones a new way to shine and gives players another set of interesting choices to make when choosing their combat drones.
Due to the changes in range and tracking, heavy drones will do more damage than before against small and slow targets, but will have a harder time hitting fast moving targets that spend most of their time at suboptimal ranges.

Finally, we are also adjusting the hitpoints of combat drones to better reflect their racial tanking styles and provide a slight hitpoint advantage to the Amarr and Caldari drones.

We believe that this change will provide players with many more interesting choices when deciding what drones to load onto their ships and use in combat.


http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/giving-drones-an-assist/

There were several threads that talked about the strange way drones did damage in the thread dealing with the dominix changes. This idea of making them orbit wider was suggested. I am glad ccp listened but I have not tested to see how well it works yet in any scientific sense. My drones seem to hit better now though.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Damen Apol
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#17 - 2014-07-15 09:33:45 UTC
God's Apples wrote:
The article still holds true today. Light drones are always better vs unwebbed AB frigs or unscrammed MWD frigs while mediums and heavies are better against AB frigs with one web or scrammed MWD frigs. Once you have multiple webs lights are the best once again.



Nah, there are exceptional circumstances where medium drones can simply volley frigates off the field