Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Either way you try to split out how missiles should train doesn't matter to me.

But I'm still adamant on the fact that missiles need to be revamped to be more in line with turrets on the speed of engagement.

We got a little side tracked during the discussion, an interesting side track though.

The Original question was for CCP to take a good look at missiles and their purpose in the game.
At this moment it’s a long sp intensive skill tree with only Rockets Heavy missiles and a little less heavy assault missiles that function in a way that they can be used in pvp, and I’m not really sure if that is due to the ship’s or the missiles them self, ironically the especially build for PVE Drake is the most used PVP Caldari ship.(not to side track back to the Caldari discussion, though it shows best with them due to the fact it’s one of their main weapon systems.)
I could say:
1) Make missiles more useful in pvp
2) Give better ships so we can use them better for pvp
3) Remove them and give people something else.
4) Ect ect.
Fact is I would shouting something from which I really don’t know what the impact will be on the entire game, few people would I think.
But what I can try to explain that as it is now, it doesn’t really work and if they would please look at it.


On the side tracked discussion concerning Caldari and their split skill tree. Personally I think there is enough room for ships that aren’t there now. All other races have around 80% of their T1 ships in their main weapon system, Caldari have an about 45-55 % split between hybrid and Missiles I believe that would leave some room for roles not filled in by one or the other weapon systems.
Personally I would like to see a t1 platform for torps. and light missiles (not only being able to use them or a thrown along in the mix with every other missile a step higher or lower like the caracal)
And if the spartan like Caldari really want this duality in their weapon system, bring in those dual platforms and make them work. If not through the ship bonus, how about a Caldari weapon systems module that gives bonuses to both hybrid and missiles weapon platforms.
Just something that binds them together as a race, if I read your reply correctly, you mention you started as a Caldari missile pilot from with you started to train Lasers, I’m doing something similar with projectiles and artillery, but not hybrids and with us many more, there are very few reasons to actually start training for the rest of the Caldari legacy aside from role-play reasons.
It would be nice to have actually a reason stay with your race’s weapon systems, though at this moment the only Caldari “hybrid” ship I really like to fly is the Falcon and seen the number of Falcon fittings floating around with the turrets replaced by other modules, more people thought about leaving the hybrid skill tree for a later time.

The problem is that if caldari ships are "tank focused" then they actually do have an issue than.

Ok... So you're saying caldari pilots shouldn't be pvp effective???
Last time I checked, fitting a tank boat for pvp as a bad Idea because you wouldn't have enough dps to wittle down your target's buffer tank.

Take a drake vs a hurricane in 1v1 for example. The drake has a damn good tank and is the only bc that can do most lvl 4 missions. However, the only reason it can do lvl 4 missions is because of that tank. It's dps is way too low. Take the hurricane, it's incapable of doing most lvl 4 missions because it doesn't have enough tank, however, it has enough dps, but in lvl 4 missions, tank is boss.
Now, in pvp the drake pretty much has the same fit and the hurricane has high dps with a buffer tank. The hurricane will win hands down. It has high dps that can eat away at the drake's high tank before the drake's low dps can eat away at the hurricane's low tank.


Now, does that really matter that much to me? Not really, I feel the drake is a pve ship and is really only effective in blobs, typically where the amount of drakes outnumbers their opponents.

However, when I do look at missile boats, I don't see anything pvp viable apart from stealth bombers, and the only thing that really makes them viable is their bombs.

Drake - pve, tengu - mostly pve, nighthawk - pve, raven - pve, scorpion - pvp but only because of it's pvp jamming bonuses, widow - pvp but again only because of bonuses, Golem - pve and should be, Caracal - mostly pve maybe some small scale pvp, any missile frigs - pve if anything.
The only missile boat ships that are effective in pvp are only there because of a bonus or set of bonuses, such as stealth bombers with bombs(they wouldn't be effective without them) and scorpion/widow with their jams. (yes there are several other t2 cruisers and stuff that are effective, but again only because of bonuses). Any ship without a bonus directed towards pvp isn't used in pvp and is ineffective in pvp. The only reason the drake is used is because it's a passive tank, therefore you don't have to worry about cap warfare.

Now, step into the realm of pve. Missile boats are great. As a matter of fact, I would almost suggest that everyone own a golem. HOWEVER, that's solo. Now step into group pve, such as lvl 5's and incursions. There is only one ship that is a missile boat that is acceptible in lvl 5's and incursions and that is the rattlesnake. The reason is because of it's massive tank, and the fact that it's a drone boat. However, that mostly comes into play for lvl 5's. Incursions can still do without it.

So missiles are at the bottom of the heap in pvp, bottom of the heap in group pve, and only on top when it comes to solo pve, which last time I checked, this was a "pvp" oriented game. So basically missile boats promote solo playing.

I still suggest that they make missiles more pvp viable. Missiles are awesome in pvp, but only at close range. The further from the target you get, the less effective you become.

I still propose a balance of missiles.

Greatly increase velocity
Greatly reduce flight time
Change explosion velocity(which is a skill meant to counter the slow speed of missiles in relation to the target) with a factor that revolves around accuracy, since they will be moving much faster.

Balance rate of fire, dps, bonuses, etc. etc. around their new abilities.

This means that missiles will become more pvp viable without actually effecting what missiles are.