Skill Discussions

thanks for stopping in and saying a word.

as for black frog's business though, that level 1 skilled jump freighter wouldn't jump very far, and jump freighters aren't the biggest T2 requirement offenders at 90d minimum train, compared to ishtars (60d) and golems (110d) and black ops (115d)

command ships are a big offender, however, with as much minimum training time as jump freighters (97d).


that's a bad exaggeration and I hope you know it. also, this is about T2 and that does not include any carriers. lastly, plenty of people would love the idea of a day-old carrier pilot.

yeah, more or less. I'm working on an outline for an article at the moment. I think this needs to be accompanied by some graphics before it's more convincing. I'll post in this thread for sure when it's done, and/so/but look out for it if you don't plan to return to this thread.

This makes the most sense. If I spent one day training for a ship one could hardly call it specializing. . I agree that having bonuses per level of required skills seems silly. Perhaps it should just be listed as a set bonus unrelated to the T1 skill.

have you looked at what the specs are on a 40 day tengu

Level 4 offers 4 / 5 = 80% of the capability for 45255 / 256000 = 17.68% of the training time.

Training level 5 is specialization in a skill.

T2 ships are all specialized; they require pilots that have specialized in training to use.

If I seem to be repeating myself or parroting others, it is because I read your blog, and I still don't understand what your trying to achieve. The blog is hard to read; it reads as very disconnected, and I'm wondering if there is a language barrier here.

If you are suggesting easier or shorter skill training, you are unlikely to find any support for that. Also, this is the wrong forum for Features & Ideas Discussion.

Tau, thanks for the feedback regarding the writing. the main purpose of the essay was the writing practice--I have no vested interest in a change like this. I've cleared core skills with all of my mains and would be unaffected if minimum requirements were doubled, or tripled, or everything must be V

what I hoped to convey was the difference between

training time multiplier, which is a skill's training time difficulty relative to its benefit



withholding a benefit until a threshold of a number of skills were trained.



YES Amarr Cruiser I and Logistics I, along with a complement of meaningful skills as requirements.

moving requirements to Mastery I also involves disconnecting ability skills from core skills, such as:

Capacitor Emission Systems not requiring Power Grid Management III (+PG)

Remote Armor Repair Systems requiring Mechanics III (hull HP) or Repair Systems II (repair system duration)

so that skipping core skills means a failship with gimped fitting and module performance, which is not so different from the usefulness of minimums currently

I'm not going to speak to modules, but for ships, t2 is specialization. You cannot specialize without having a base. I can't speak for other professions, but as an engineer, we all went through the same general engineering classes (dynamics, statics, calc, physics, etc.) These classes are you trainin to five in the ship skill. After that, you all go your different ways and specialize. The electricals go off and do their E&M, the civil go off and do structures, and aero go off and study aerodynamics.

TL;DR you have to have a solid general base of knowledge before you can specialize

Any in game skills aren't going to give you game play knowledge. You can keep setting skills and never play for 5 years. Yes you'll be able to fly a super carrier but have no clue how to.

This is not the point of skill. It's about setting goals and making decisions as to what you want to fly. Eve is not about instant gratification. If you want it right away there are many games that offer that.

The general base is battleships. From any sort of realistic training you would have to know how to fly a battleship before learning how to use all the extra buttons that are there only for marauders.

Should we stick a fighter pilot in an f-22 before he knows how to fly a Cessna? So look at training level 1-5 as learning how to fly the Cessna before you get the keys to the raptor. If you don't like that example then let's say level 1-5 BS is your bachelor degree and Marauders is your masters.

If you don't like any of those because they are "real world" examples, then let's just let day 1 players fly titans. Why do they need all those other skills that don't directly effect the hull? In fact, why not take it to the extreme and remove all prereqs because that's what's being asked. No one has issues with certain mods being attached to level 5 skills. Why should ships be different

This isn't the same thing. As far as I know you still require your gun skill to 5 in order to train the same guns 2 weapon specialization skills. Again solid base before specializing. Or do you think I should be able to use t2 guns out of the gate? If you do then all training plans say train level 1 of the specialization skills then go train your general gun skills and that makes no sense