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Mittani: Greifers drive away new players

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Troedoff Dude
Potato Security
#361 - 2014-07-14 16:55:56 UTC
The one gate out of the newbro zone should be into a low sec system for lols. In gate camped 24/7, and out gate pipe bombed.
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#362 - 2014-07-14 16:59:25 UTC
Troedoff Dude wrote:
The one gate out of the newbro zone should be into a low sec system for lols. In gate camped 24/7, and out gate pipe bombed.


That is perhaps exactly what Mittani had in mind while writing his post with a devious grin.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#363 - 2014-07-14 17:01:28 UTC
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:

Also, after you do the missions where you get the hang of basic controls, shooting and mining, etc., there ought to be a couple of missions where you're thrown into a PUG with other newbies to do some task (group mining or waypoint patrol or something like that), led by an AI commander who's explaining stuff as you go and assigning tasks in the way an FC might.

Then after that, another kind of group mission (again, randomb PUG of newbies), this time with no AI FC, but with the difficulty pitched so that the team can just about squeeze through if nobody communicates, but you can get a nice reward if the team happens to get it together to communicate and co-ordinate.


The problem with something like this is, although I agree it would be a good way to teach people EvE, is you cannot guarantee enough newbies will be active at a given time for such a set-piece. Nothing is going to buzz-kill an eager new player than being forced to sit for 20 minutes waiting for another player to reach the same point in the arc.

I played Warhammer Online when it came out (yeah, stupid me - worst thing is I've been burned by Games Workshop in the past, so i should have known), and they had a clever "public mission" system, where it auto-grouped you within certain areas with everyone else in the area for set events that occured at regular intervals. First week, they were awesome; the areas were loaded, and big groups were swinging through the events at every spawn. A week in, passing through those areas on an alt, you had to grab on like a limpet to anyone else in the zone, or find yourself alone in these events getting slaughtered by the far-superior difficulty level.
Venjenz Sake
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#364 - 2014-07-14 17:51:31 UTC
Jur Tissant wrote:
WoW and WoW-clones provide meaningful PvE content with real progression, not a L1 grind which leads to a L2 grind and eventually an endless L4 grind. I think the NPE, and the game at large, could benefit from story-driven PvE content which isn't as open-ended as the rest of EVE's universe.

Rubbish. WoW and WoW-clones all have the same grinds, and in most ways, their grinds are worse. With time and PLEX, you can fly a capital ship, build/anchor a POS, or do any number of things. In WoW and its clones, the Purple Sword of L33tness augmented with the orange Epic Gem of Teh r0xx0rz can only be done by doing leveling to max, then leveling 6 factions to exalted, then 50 random heroic queues, followed by 100 random 10 man raid queues, then by 100 more 25 man random heroic raid queues, then by accumulating enough token drops, plus killing Specific_Raid_Boss_01 about 100 times to get lucky enough on your roll for the itme you take to epic quest NPC_02 who is gatekeeper for blah blah, etc etc ad nauseum.

In EVE, time unlocks the skill, and gear is soooooo much simpler. If you can't buy it, get the BP and the mats and go build it. Done. And PLEX says all things can be done quickly if you just can't wait.

Faction standings? No comparison...EVE is a way easier, kinder, gentler faction grind than WoW ever was except maybe vanilla. If you do 1 career agent hub per day, with Social V and Connections IV, you'll be L3 ready for any of the 4 empire factions in two weeks and have ~80-90 million ISK. From tutorials. Within two weeks you can be 2/3 of the way to easy money/gear PVE grindage in mostly safe and comfy environments. In fact, you can get L3 ready faction/money wise hell and gone faster than your skills get there.

PVE content in WoW is not meaningful, certainly no more so than the PVE content in EVE anyway. "Do/collect/kill X, return for reward" is PVE. It's easier PVE in WoW, that's for sure, which to me makes it less meaningful in every way. The closest a fantasy RPG clone of WoW has ever been to EVE for truly meaningful PVE was old EQ before necromancers got the corpse summoning spell, because that's as close to the whole "there goes all your stuff...KABOOM!" thing as any game has ever come to EVE. No other game has EVE's sense of loss, and that is what gives it more meaning.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#365 - 2014-07-14 18:32:09 UTC
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#366 - 2014-07-14 18:44:17 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Carthoris ofHelium wrote:

Free awoxing doesn't make any sense though it's counter intuitive. It's not immediately obvious that your corpmates can kill you without CONCORD intervention, because it doesn't make intuitive sense why that would be true. Corp theft is already a big enough threat to corp security that people still need to be careful about who they hire and what roles they assign, all hi sec awoxing does is make people even more paranoid about who they let into their corps.

With the "new" safety switch you can find that out in a few seconds without risking your ship. Discovering game mechanics is part of the fun of a game. But some people obviously think this isn't a game and losing a pixel spaceship over a deficit in knowledge is something that should not happen at all. I don't think we need this kind of people in EVE, they will only ask for more nerfs and safety because they are not actually interested in how the game works.

I guess this safety switch could come in handy. I usually have it either on red or green, I have no idea what yellow does- and I am pretty sure I am not the only one here.
One argument against completely outlawing shooting corpmates was that this would destroy important game content, like corp tournaments for example.
How about the yellow safety setting was required for both attacker and target to pvp in highsec without concord interference?
It would make PVP within the same corp consensual, and I guess that was the whole initial idea behind it in the first place. Non-consensual PVP within the same corp just makes no sense at all.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#367 - 2014-07-14 19:10:54 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:

I guess this safety switch could come in handy. I usually have it either on red or green, I have no idea what yellow does- and I am pretty sure I am not the only one here.


If it works anything like a traffic light, it either brings you to a screeching halt , or makes you go ludicrous speed for like.. no reason.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#368 - 2014-07-14 20:22:40 UTC
Jur Tissant wrote:
WoW and WoW-clones provide meaningful PvE content with real progression, not a L1 grind which leads to a L2 grind and eventually an endless L4 grind. I think the NPE, and the game at large, could benefit from story-driven PvE content which isn't as open-ended as the rest of EVE's universe.


Yeah

Kill 20 bugs

Collect 30 orc butts

Bring me 150 sigils

Ding level 67

Collect 20 Sigils

Kill 1209 Orc Butts

Bring me 1937 Bugs

Ding 68

Yup I see what you mean about meaningful

What were we thinking

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#369 - 2014-07-14 20:41:38 UTC
Goon, sense, same sentence. ...



that's it eve s dying.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#370 - 2014-07-14 21:19:38 UTC
I don't think awoxing itself necessarily should be removed, but the fact that the neutral logi exploit hasn't been addressed is absurd.

I don't see really how the safe zone suggestion is all that different than what we have now, except for being more homogenous.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#371 - 2014-07-14 21:26:46 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Arkady Romanov wrote:
Dave (edit: and Remedial) stop taking the bait. The guy is in Bastion, who's SRP comes from Mittens proverbial teat.

Plus, the title is about "greifers" not "griefers."


to be fair though, the way awoxing works in high sec is hilariously terrible especially when you consider anyone repping the awoxer inherits no suspect or criminal flags.

i've seen 3 day old gnosis pilots take out vindicators because even with a vindicator's dps you're just not going to break a gnosis being repped by 3 augorors and you're not going to suicide gank an augoror worth at most 40m with a 1bn+ isk battleship.

doesn't matter what you think of tmc, the mittani, goons, or terrible thread titles - the article has some good points.

Basically this. I'm a huge supporter of awoxing as a profession, but the fact that logi's don't inherit suspect timers when repping someone who is in combat with a corp mate is just silly. The easiest solution to this would be to have players that agress corp members in high sec receive a suspect timer.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#372 - 2014-07-14 21:28:56 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
The easiest solution to this would be to have players that agress corp members in high sec receive a suspect timer.


Or simply pass along the limited engagement timer in circumstances in which the suspect timer is not applicable.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#373 - 2014-07-14 21:33:44 UTC
Shows how much attention I pay

I thought that was the way things happened at the moment

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#374 - 2014-07-14 21:37:48 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Arkady Romanov wrote:
Dave (edit: and Remedial) stop taking the bait. The guy is in Bastion, who's SRP comes from Mittens proverbial teat.

Plus, the title is about "greifers" not "griefers."




doesn't matter what you think of tmc, the mittani, goons, or terrible thread titles - the article has some good points.

Basically this. I'm a huge supporter of awoxing as a profession, but the fact that logi's don't inherit suspect timers when repping someone who is in combat with a corp mate is just silly. The easiest solution to this would be to have players that agress corp members in high sec receive a suspect timer.


Corp members shouldn't be able to freely fire at each other...they should have to use the duel option. Then if they get killed by a corp mate well it's their own fault.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#375 - 2014-07-14 21:40:18 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:

Corp members shouldn't be able to freely fire at each other...they should have to use the duel option. Then if they get killed by a corp mate well it's their own fault.


You're acting like behaving in a spy or turncoat fashion is not intended.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#376 - 2014-07-14 21:46:42 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Corp members shouldn't be able to freely fire at each other...they should have to use the duel option. Then if they get killed by a corp mate well it's their own fault.

So you want to completely remove a valid playstyle from eve that is one of the things that makes this game unique? No thanks.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
The easiest solution to this would be to have players that agress corp members in high sec receive a suspect timer.


Or simply pass along the limited engagement timer in circumstances in which the suspect timer is not applicable.

I don't think limited engagement is sufficient in this case. The corporation as a whole should be able to take action against the aggressor and neutral logi's, not just the person being agressed.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#377 - 2014-07-14 21:50:59 UTC
can the limited engagement timer be extended to include whole corps? like when you hover over it, it'd show a corp badge and name instead of pilot picture and name
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#378 - 2014-07-14 21:54:49 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
can the limited engagement timer be extended to include whole corps? like when you hover over it, it'd show a corp badge and name instead of pilot picture and name

benny you're so stupid that'd allow the neutral pilot to aggro anyone in the corp that wasn't in the fight
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#379 - 2014-07-14 22:03:41 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
can the limited engagement timer be extended to include whole corps? like when you hover over it, it'd show a corp badge and name instead of pilot picture and name

benny you're so stupid that'd allow the neutral pilot to aggro anyone in the corp that wasn't in the fight


Hence my suggestion. Suspect just does not fit, imo.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#380 - 2014-07-14 22:04:30 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Troedoff Dude wrote:
The one gate out of the newbro zone should be into a low sec system for lols. In gate camped 24/7, and out gate pipe bombed.


That is perhaps exactly what Mittani had in mind while writing his post with a devious grin.


What? Neither of you actually read the article did you?