Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Typhoon fleet issue is legacy and an anomaly as most ships don't use two weapon systems... as in most navy issue ship will be updated at some point to dumb it down.

Navy battleships got a pass when they redid T1 battleships. Navy phoon's bonuses moved from 5% proj rof/missile dam to 7.5% and if I remember correctly, it got an additional missile and turret hardpoint. (I could be mistaken about that). The intention was to make it an actually viable split weapons platform.

Secondly, large missiles are, in general, more powerful per launcher than large turrets. Navy raven doesn't have damage bonuses with 8 missiles, but navy scorp and raven do with 6. Using that logic, the navy phoon is actually the best bonused missile ship in the game in terms of raw dps. It has six hardpoints and a 7.5%/level damage, giving it an effective 8.25 missile launchers, compared to the SNI's 7.5, and the raven's 8. Even the golem and the CNR only have 8 effective missile launchers, meaning the fleet phoon has the highest raw dps output with missiles across both factions.

Take a look at the odyssey rebalance. The devs are pretty clear on their vision for the ship,
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=235324
tl;dr fleet phoon is working as intended.

edit: whoops, forgot about the new Barghest. It has the best raw damage with 8.75 effective missile launchers. Still, the point remains, the phoon is doing fine.

Try 9 ranks. Not 15. Lying in order to try and push a point just makes you look dumb.

It is interesting that of the two Gallente/Caldari factions, neither of them focuses on the one thing the two races have in common, Hybrid Turrets.

It would be interesting, now that there is a dedicated missile pirate faction race, to change the guristas missile affinity to a hybrid turret one... It would also make more sense for the gallente skill to give a bonus to hybrid turret damage than the missile damage it does now.

Thoughts?

Yet you were the one who was condescending and belligerent without actually reading the OP. You're not inclined to seriously discuss the topic because you had nothing relevant to add in the first place. I also like how defending myself without being a total ass is considered a victimization complex. Next time, I'll just use name calling, bullying, logical fallacies, and trolling to shame my opposition off the thread. Then I'll come ask you for your substantial experience.





Those being the SNI and the.... rattler? I'm not sure how much the rattler contributes to the discussion. Part of amarr's problem is a lack of a well defined secondary weapons system. Sometimes it's drones, sometimes it's missiles, sometimes it's neuts, sometimes it's all three. But I'd point to the Nestor as s ship with both armor resists and a drone bonus, though it's true there is no high end missile boat for amarr. This discussion also included marauders and blackops, though, because generally speaking, people largely use marauders and faction BSs for similar purposes. If you throw those into the mix, the Kronos gets a armor rep bonus, and the vargur gets a shield boost bonus.

All the roles you mentioned, besides an amarrian missile platform already exist in what I've called the high end. (Faction and T2 BSs with large tanks, raw hp, and damage)

As far as cross training, I'm going to have to cross train regardless, I just wish I wasn't required to. The other races don't have to.



Well, comparatively, the Rokh out ranges its rivals, but underdamages them. It kinda shoehorns it into some roles and makes it suck for others. It would be nice to have a lvl 4 hybrid platform that could make the 1k mark, like the other factions, or a pvp role beyond gatecamps and huge fleets.

Actually it isn't... Since Tieracide, CCP has actually put the Minmatar more and more into being a Dual-Weapon platform Race; and since the Drone 'Rebalance', it is actually very easy to also say that the Gallente have followed suit in that regard.

Now I still very vocally advocate for Drones to become a fully fledged Weapon System; with Drone Hangers being actual High-Slot Modules rather than simply being "built-in" ... but this thread isn't about the Gallente being slightly out of balance right now, or my feeling about Drones.

Instead the focus here is more on the fact that while the Caldari /do/ have a number of Hybrid Ships, the simple fact is that because they have Optimal often without Damage Bonus' (or considerably weaker Damage Bonus' than Gallente for Hybrids) this puts them in a very problematic position if you want to use them in their intended Sniper Roles.

Especially when you consider that Railgun Hybrids are extremely middle-of-the-road, as everything they do is honestly OK and that's about all.

Really there is a serious problem with Rails, and there has been for quite a long time; sure I know they were improved not that long back to make them a bit more viable following the Hybrid Nerf that destroyed them completely... but they're still exceptionally bad when paired with Caldari Ships; which is the platform that CCP intended them to be on.

It is almost ironic in a way that Rails are a far better weapon platform on Gallente ships; because their tracking and damage output is buffed to a point where they become useable outside of extreme ranges.

...

Now this isn't to say that the Ships themselves are the real issue here, which stems from the Weapon Platform itself.
In a way changing them is dangerous, because of the Bonus' that the Gallente ships get; as any changes it gets that will in-turn benefit Gallente ships ... but improving them for Caldari ships, also means that the bonus' they have available also end up seriously reducing their versatility.

So, why not change both Blasters and Railguns.
If you look at the other Weaponry Categories, there are usually 3 Brawl and 2 Range weapons.

With Hybrids; both the 'Brawl' Blasters and 'Range' Railguns have 3 Variants.
So why not separate these... weapons into Plasma and Hybrids.

Change the Damage Balance between to the two...
Plasma ... 5-60-35 (EM - Therm - Kin)
Hybrid ... 40-55-5 (Therm - Kin - Exp)

With each having 3 variations, what they could be split in to would be:
Range - Balance - Damage

So for example:
75mm (Damage) - 3.61x DMG, 2.32 RoF, 0.35 Rad / s, 6.50 km Opt., 3.00 km Fall-Off
125mm (Balance) - 4.50x DMG, 4.30 RoF, 0.21 Rad / s, 11.20 km Opt., 4.80 km Fall-Off
150mm (Range) - 6.23x DMG, 8.45 RoF, 0.10 Rad / s, 15.2 km Opt., 5.90 km Fall-Off

Neutron (Damage) - 4.42x DMG, 3.55 RoF, 0.38 Rad / s, 1.80 km Opt., 3.20 km Fall-Off
Ion (Balance) - 4.50x DMG, 4.20 RoF, 0.29 Rad / s, 2.40 km Opt., 6.4 km Fall-Off
Electron (Range) - 4.65x DMG, 4.93 RoF, 0.22 Rad / s, 3.25 km Opt., 9.6km Fall-Off

(WIP Values)

The idea here is that Railguns are far more 'Volley' Focused while keeping the Blasters as a more 'DPS' focused weapon.
This would be backed up with the Ammo, which for the most part doesn't even need to change outside of shifting the balance to include the 3rd very-low damage type.

...

I would also suggest that while I have no issues with the Gallente ships keeping their 'Speed', provided that the Caldari gained 'natural' shield resists; only something like 4-5% to each, but I think it is important given especially at the Frigate - Cruiser level right now Gallente ships can very easily out-tank via Speed and Burst Active to give them far greater survivability than they realistically should have.

Caldari - Amarr are suppose to be slow, more stationary but considerably Defensive focused over raw damage. It just seems like a good idea to tweak them so they actually can fill that role like the Amarr currently do.

I get how tracking and dps help sniping fits, but how do optimal bonuses help blaster fits?

I dont think the amarr have a 1k dps hybrid platform, apart from the point that you actually can do 1k dps with the rokh, with blasters, you still have 8 turrets.

If you are just looking at a abaddon with tachs, try to fit it properly.

As for artys, dunno, atm they have low dps, as projectile weapons go, and if you take the alpha, what will they get?

Railguns are both caldari and gallente. Some of the niche uses of railguns are in gallente line (kronos for example), but there are some in caldari.

Example Vulture, very good when your fleet has RSTransfer

Ŕailguns are not made for DPS. They have more range than the other weapon systems and are MUCH easier to fit.

honestly though, now that we have a dedicated missile pirate faction, why not change the gallente half of the guristas line to give a 5% bonus to hybrid turret ROF. That makes way more sense than the gallente somehow giving a missile bonus, and that gives a gallente/caldari faction a hybrid specialty which just makes sense considering it's the only thing those two races have in common...

This would make the worm/gila deadly brawlers with good drone support, and the rattlesnake could choose to get in close and brawl or stay at range and snipe with sentrys.