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Exploration - Surviving & some Qs
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Spicy McGee
Quazar Holdings
#1 - 2014-07-14 07:57:46 UTC
Hey all

So i'm pretty new to Ever and still trying to figure out what i really want to do. When i first started i hated the Exploration tutorials and decided to steer clear of it

Then i got stubborn and thought, no! i want to understand this, i fell in love with exploration

I know mining will bore me so i don't concentrate on it
- i've been interested in Ninja Salvaging but never really looked into
- i something feel maybe i'd like to be a mission runner but again don't know where to start

So i Currently run an Imicus
i have a core probe and cloaking device
- data & relics and Cargo scanner.. and MWD
- i have 2 Warp Disruptors

I hate scanning in high sec, and even low sec i'm not too fond of due to going out to Null and finding myself coming home with 30 - 40 million iso after a couple of sites
- some sectors i find 2 data dn 1 relic site and spend a while there

Lately though i'v been getting caught in bubbles and being gunned down
- i use the map to look at Ships destroyed in last hour and avoid them
- i Warp to with 100 from gates to make sure no bubbles

Where i go wrong is, ok other side no ships destroyed, No bubbles.. go through gate and BAM! there's a bubble and 5 people on other gate and i'm destroyed

Running around in my imicus, i've been dying a lot coming home lately and gone from 98mill isk to 50mill
i just can't seem to survive lately
- i am a solo player so don't have friends or people i can fly with for protection

is there anything i can do to protect myself some more? any tips to surviving?

- my last adventure i stopped off and logged into a Station with 12 mill iso on me.. when i logged in i thought, hmm 3 people in local chat so i dumped my stuff in station and left, went to the gate and pretty much got 1 or 2 shot down and died

so i'm glad i dumped that stuff

So I'm thinking should i be dumping things and co m,ing back later with other ships to pick pu or just keep trying to go home?
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-07-14 08:47:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tao Dolcino
A lot of new players, and not so new players, are disheartened by gate camping and find it a stupid game mechanism. I won't enter here in the polemic Lol
That said, there are still ways to reduce the risk. The use of the map is one, but as you said, the stats about the number of kills in the last hour don't guarantee your safety, you can very well be the first. There must be a first.
One thing you can do is to avoid the pipes (another stupid game mechanism which encourage PvPers to sit at a gate instead of roaming ? I won't enter here in the polemic P). Try to find some low sec or null sec sectors which are less populated.
I know that at some points you need to use the pipes to go back and sell your stuff, but you can maybe do that during some less busy hours, like early in the morning just before you go to work. it just takes a few minuts to go through the pipes and be back in hi sec (or to position your ship in low-null for later gaming).
Wormspace can also be another way to travel without going through the main pipes...if you don't care about your destination ;)
I'd say join a corp in which players share the same activities than you, are active in your playtime, and are willing to group with you regulary. That's where EVE really starts to be fun :)
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-07-14 08:49:04 UTC
Spicy McGee wrote:
Lately though i'v been getting caught in bubbles and being gunned down
-snip-
So I'm thinking should i be dumping things and co m,ing back later with other ships to pick pu or just keep trying to go home?


If you warp to 100km and there is a bubble on the grid in line with your warp tunnel, you will get sucked into it no matter what range you sit at. If you want to check the gate for bubbles, warp to a close-by celestial at random range (planet within 14 AU from gate) and do a 30 degree directional scan towards the gate. If you see no bubbles, it's safe.

For some extra survivability against bad gate camps: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Cloak_Trick

For friends, I highly suggest getting some. If nothing else, apply to a renting nullsec corporation for fast and easy access. BEing a renter does limit your rights to do scanning, but hey, it's a start. You could also start scanning for wormholes to gain passage to nullsec, if the holes are not inhabited you will have about 12-36h of "safe" passage until you need to scan down a new route.

Training to T2 covert ops will give you an extra layer of security, but that will take anywhere from a week to 3, depending o your current skills. And remember, when it all fails, analyze what went wrong and try again in a different way.
darmwand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-07-14 08:49:12 UTC
Have you tried using wormholes? Some of them go directly from high-sec to null-sec (i.e. like a jump gate), that way you can get deep into 0.0 without ever using any of the regular gates.

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-07-14 08:54:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Praxis Ginimic
Train frig to 5 and cloaking to 4 and get a helios. Bring a mobile depot so you can refit for travel, scanning, hacking.

Better yet, use an interceptor. You don't get the scanning or hacking bonus but you won't get caught in bubbles.

Another option is to take wh's. There are bubbles and scary people there too but they are much less traveled than the null-high pipes.

Edit: ya... what he said ^^
Spicy McGee
Quazar Holdings
#6 - 2014-07-14 09:23:20 UTC
Tao Dolcino wrote:

Wormspace can also be another way to travel without going through the main pipes...if you don't care about your destination ;)



haha true story, went into a wormhole.. 5 players in local.. i cried
Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#7 - 2014-07-14 11:04:22 UTC
Spicy McGee wrote:
Lately though i'v been getting caught in bubbles and being gunned down
- i use the map to look at Ships destroyed in last hour and avoid them
- i Warp to with 100 from gates to make sure no bubbles
Where i go wrong is, ok other side no ships destroyed, No bubbles.. go through gate and BAM! there's a bubble and 5 people on other gate and i'm destroyed


There are other useful mapmodes - average pilots in space, pilots currently docked and active, number of jumps. Nothing's perfect - you might be the first victim - but you can sniff out gatecamps more effectively.

Warping to 100km doesn't help. If your warp vector passes through the bubble and you're warping on-grid to the bubble, you're snagged. If I'm alone in Local, I spend my time setting up bookmarks to observe gates safely - either dropping a bookmark a few AU out or MWDing off a few hundred km perpendicular to the ecliptic. On later trips, you can warp to those and D-scan the gate for naughty people.

If you pop through a gate and there's a bubble, you can use the MWD-cloak trick but in a T1 explorer you're then slowboating away _very_ slowly while they gob up a vast cloud of drones to decloak you. It's probably better to try and MWD back to the gate and get away.

If I were doing nullsec exploring, given that I'm also in a T1 explorer (a Heron, even if I am Amarr: can't argue with 5 mid slots), I'd only take it as a bonus when I could get in via a wormhole. People can't very well camp every WH in system simultaneously.
Toshiro Hasegawa
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2014-07-14 16:58:34 UTC
Only thing i would add.

to avoid bubbles pulling you in .. do not warp dir from Gate to Gate.

warp to planet at 100 or 70 .. drop BM mid way in flight .. warp back to the BM

Open map .. sort out how you can approach the Gate you want to get to without approaching it from same dir as Gate to Gate ..

This can increase your chances of survival

--

as people said the the only things that are going to help you on the other side of the gate are being an Int, or cloaking and getting lucky .. or cloaking in a cov ops and warping off


i really like the idea of using WH to get out into nice and safe null ..

but that then points to getting in with a null sec corp ... so you dont have to communte to work all the time and then spend precious mental energy avoiding the locals.

History is the study of change.

Woeful Animation
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#9 - 2014-07-16 18:52:45 UTC
There are a few things to consider when you make exploration your thing.

1. Do you have a particular love for high/low sec? If not consider basing out of one of the NPC sectors of null. You are more likely to bump into gate camps as the high sec to null sec intersections, avoid those.

2. Get to know your space. Sure you are going to jump into a system that looks safe from the map data and still get destroyed. That's a part of the game. Once you know your space, you know where people set up camps and find alternative routes.

3. Stay away from data sites. More on this to follow. The loot takes up too much space and requires you to move come back to base too often.

4. Never be afraid of making a deep bookmark and logging off safely, especially if you are fat as a tick with goodies. So fly from the gate to any celestial, and bookmark a spot in between. Warp back and do a safe log off. Go outside, catch rerun, read a book, have a sandwich and come back. Local will eventually cool and you can get out safely.

5. Learn to fly an interceptor. And learn to fly covert ops. It's time well spent.

6. Pro trick. The relic site loots take almost no cargo space. Only do relic sites. Take you loot to the NPC station and drop it. Wait until you have enough and then use the interceptor to push the cargo through to market. Very few ships can lock an interceptor that doesn't want to get caught.

7. When your cargo value become too high (your risk tolerance warning lights begin flashing) Dump your cargo. Sweep through later in an interceptor to pick up the loot. Don't be foolish with a 200 mill load. Get it safe and pick it up later. You can scout the route with a rookie ship first, or have a friend drive through first.

8. Learn to MWD cloak trick. First tip. Don't panic. You're in a bubble. You have 30 seconds to plan. Stop and plan. Second step. Look where the ships are around the bubble and where the bubble anchors are located. You plan to escape. Third step. Pick a random direction that makes them veer off a direct course, prefer towards the short side of the bubble. But any direction that leaves you undetected is good. Once you are fully planned. Pick you direction double click, MWD, then cloak, and quickly change direction again. I generally choose down, but I crazy Ivan left or right from time to time. (Why? MWD will start and run a cycle which moves you a good distance. The direction you show will be the chaser probable direction. He can't help but assume you will fly straight. Move unexpected immediately after cloaking. The distance they pass by will be shorter but they will generally miss by couple thousand meters.) Finally, Align then decloak and warp. Give yourself plenty of room.

9. Finally, start setting up gate perches on gates you use frequently. 150 to 200 above or below gives you the view. In an Imicus you will arrive uncloaked. Use the MWD cloak trick once you land to view the scene.

10. Tears of a missed opportunity are almost as salty as . . .
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#10 - 2014-07-17 02:26:01 UTC
darmwand wrote:
Have you tried using wormholes? Some of them go directly from high-sec to null-sec (i.e. like a jump gate), that way you can get deep into 0.0 without ever using any of the regular gates.



This is what I would recommend.

Often the easiest way to get from null to high is to probe down a wormhole connection from null to wormhole space, bookmark and enter, then probe down a path back to high through a chain of wormholes, then return to null, grab all of your stuff, and use the wormhole chain you discovered to get to high.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Spicy McGee
Quazar Holdings
#11 - 2014-07-17 07:27:25 UTC
cheers for all the tips

i've started booking marking a few AU from gates an using d-scan from there. I haven't found any bubbles yet so i don't know what it will say but I'm assuming if i find the game in scan around it, there will be something about Warp disruptor but we'll see when i find one

I have been using WH's to get in and out of null a lot now

The cloaking trick i don't think will work for me yet as in my imicus i can only wear the prototype so i can't move when flaked at all

I'm still training cloaking and other skills
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-07-17 08:40:13 UTC
Spicy McGee wrote:
i don't know what it will say but I'm assuming if i find the game in scan around it, there will be something about Warp disruptor


Yes, you got it.
Samuel Triptee
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#13 - 2014-07-17 11:14:56 UTC
Great thread... makes me want to try exploration a bit.

Now, where is my invisibility cloak?

Have You Hugged Your Frigate Today?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#14 - 2014-07-17 11:23:56 UTC
Samuel Triptee wrote:
Great thread... makes me want to try exploration a bit.

Now, where is my invisibility cloak?

In the market tabCool

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#15 - 2014-07-17 11:38:21 UTC
Spicy McGee wrote:
haha true story, went into a wormhole.. 5 players in local.. i cried


Ehm... If you saw people in wormhole local they were idiots and you should totally post their details and system they were in on C&P forum :)

Invalid signature format
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#16 - 2014-07-17 11:39:33 UTC
Spicy McGee wrote:


So i Currently run an Imicus
i have a core probe and cloaking device
- data & relics and Cargo scanner.. and MWD
- i have 2 Warp Disruptors

Lately though i'v been getting caught in bubbles and being gunned down
- i use the map to look at Ships destroyed in last hour and avoid them
- i Warp to with 100 from gates to make sure no bubbles



I do a bit of nullsec exploring myself.

My first recommendation would be replace those two disruptors with warp core stabilizers in the lows - unless that's a typo and is actually what you meant to say you have fitted? That usually ensures you slip away from tackle but does not help with bubbles.

The Astero is a near-perfect null exploration frigate; fast, can use covert ops cloak, scan and hacking bonuses and can even pack some decent drone firepower. Maybe work towards that hull if exporation is really your thing?

I usually take a look at the star map before I head out exploring and plot a route out and back. I check for various stats on the systems I plan to travel through. If any are looking busy (lots of jumps, ship/pod kills last hour, lots of pilots in system) I might consider avoiding them.

When I enter a system for the first time, I usually do the following:

1. Warp to a random planet at 100km
2. Bookmark a mid-warp spot
3. Based on the system map, bookmark a safe, working from that mid-warp spot
4. If I have time, I bookmark tacticals on the gates, at least 200km off gate; from safe, warp to gate at 100 then (as long as nobody is around) burn away from it until you reach the distance you want, then bookmark.

Narrow (5 degree arc) d-scan of the gate you intend to go through before you approach it will tell you if it is camped. A tactical will usually let you avoid a bubble on the way to the gate, then jump.

The worst is the bubble on the other side. No sure fire way to know that is there beyond having some eyes-on intel from somebody else. But, that's life in null :-) And of course, the explorer's solution to that is the interdiction nullified, travel fit T3 cruiser. Expensive thing to lose though...


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson
Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#17 - 2014-07-17 12:38:30 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Spicy McGee wrote:
haha true story, went into a wormhole.. 5 players in local.. i cried

Ehm... If you saw people in wormhole local they were idiots and you should totally post their details and system they were in on C&P forum :)


I bet this is the usual confusion (well, it confused _me_ until I looked it up) between "through a wormhole" and "into wormhole space"...
Woeful Animation
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#18 - 2014-07-17 15:05:41 UTC
Escaping through wormholes is a great way to get into different parts of the space when things get hairy in your area and is a great way for you to see the areas that you are not as familiar with. Once you scan down the wormhole, warp to 10 and see what static designation it holds. K162 means its an exit, but there are plenty of other designations. Open a web browser for static mapper and plug the designation into the site and it will tell you where the hole leads. Sometimes you get lucky and you get a direct shot (no wormhole) from null to high. Obviously that's a great way to move your cargo.

Anyhow, once you know what you are dealing with, you can poke your head inside and plug the constellation designation into the site. Starts with J and has 6 numbers I think. This will give you details as to the system, what you want to know is the activity. If its active, someone lives there and you might want to leave. Additionally the system will likely have a static, which will be listed in static mapper. Again scan down the exit. Don't forget to bookmark your entrance. Poke your head out the exit and see what you find. You might be in the same system (has happened to me before) or you could be on the other side of Eve.

Word of caution. Wormholes are not safe. They can be convenient and allow you some flexibility but they are not always safe. But with proper planning, they can be used to move cargo, and be used to get in and out of difficult spots.

To be clear you don't go into wormholes to scan. The rats will eat you. They are a short cut. Might be safe and might not.
Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#19 - 2014-07-17 16:29:56 UTC
Woeful Animation wrote:
Sometimes you get lucky and you get a direct shot (no wormhole) from null to high. Obviously that's a great way to move your cargo.


On top of that, my advice when you do get back to high, if you've got a fat exploring load, drop it immediately and use a courier contract to move it to where you plan to sell it. There's plenty of people desperate for courier contracts without huge volumes, and it saves you either moving it in an eggshell explorer (that screams "I'm fat with exploring loot!") or messing about bringing up another ship to transport it.

It may be another matter if you've got a covops cloak.
Akashi Suenobu
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-07-17 18:28:17 UTC
Exploration vet here. Before I moved out to null I used to make forays into null in a covops frigate to do relic and data sites, and I only got caught once when I ran into an assault frigate fleet belonging to the corp I have since joined. Here's my advice on surviving in null exploration.


(1) Pick your route carefully. I used to use providence a lot because they generally don't allow gate camps, but that became less of an option when wars broke out. Pay attention to in-game events and deployments of big null entities to know where fleets are going to be, then go the other way to explore. It may be tempting to enter null directly from high sec, as there are a bunch of systems that do this, but those are more likely to have gate camps and bubbles on the other side. The smart move if you don't know for sure what you're jumping into is to route through lowsec. Still going to be camps, but less of a guarantee.

(2) Fly a Covops. I can't stress enough how important it is to be able to warp cloaked. In a properly fitted covops frigate, you're nearly uncatchable except for bubbles. And the bonuses to virus coherence are a huge benefit in the actual hacking. I would never explore in an interceptor, because the bonuses on covops is what gets you your loot.

(3)Learn the cloak+MWD trick. Basically, if you hit your cloak and then immediately hit your mwd (i keep them at f1 and f2 when in my covops, remember, you can drag and move around the mods in your hud to put any of them on your f keys) you get the boost from one cycle of the MWD while remaining cloaked. If you jump through a gate and there's a bubble all around you, don't panic. Find a planet that is in a different direction than the bulk of the camping ships, hit align, wait 1 second, and then do the cloak+mwd trick. You will not be uncloaked long enough for them to lock you, and you'll be out of the bubble and aligned to where you can warp before you know it. Alternatively, if there's too many ships, the cloak+MWD trick will get you back to jump distance on the gate before they can come in and decloak you and target you. Practice this maneuver in highsec first. The way server ticks work, if you hit cloak too early, you'll get an error message and you won't recloak after you lose gate cloak, and you'll have to hit the button again. This loses you a second or two and can be deadly if your enemies are good.

(4) NEVER NEVER NEVER WARP GATE TO GATE. Always bounce off of some celestial that isn't in a direct line with the gate. 90% of the time, bubbles are going to be set up so they can only catch you if you're coming from another gate, or possibly the sun. Warp first to an out of the way planet, then to your out gate. Since this doesn't solve the problem of a bubble right on the gate, it's usually a good idea to warp to the closest planet to the gate and d-scan at just over the range the gate is at, and see if bubbles pop up. Worst case scenario, you go out another gate.

(5) Expect to die once in a while. No system is perfect. I got caught a couple times, but I still made more than I lost. Fly smart and stay cloaked if you're not alone in a system and you'll do okay.
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