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How much profit should I be making? 2.5B capital
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Ara Galacticon
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-07-14 00:57:58 UTC
After a long break from eve, I've come back with an interest in trading. I have about 2.5B in capital, and I've been trying out some margin trading with both low and high priced items. However, I find that even with good margins and low prices or ok margins and high prices, I don't move much product. I.e. Today I'll find a high price item (700M-800M) that moves an average of 30 units a day, and enough of a margin to make 20M per unit bought and sold. The problem is, I can only buy and sell 2-3 of these a day, even if I am constantly updating my orders.

Is there something wrong with the type of item I am choosing?

How much should I be making daily with a 2.5B capital if I am on a fair amount?
Constantine Goldreich
Goldreich Interhub
#2 - 2014-07-14 02:29:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Constantine Goldreich
Ara Galacticon wrote:
After a long break from eve, I've come back with an interest in trading. I have about 2.5B in capital, and I've been trying out some margin trading with both low and high priced items. However, I find that even with good margins and low prices or ok margins and high prices, I don't move much product. I.e. Today I'll find a high price item (700M-800M) that moves an average of 30 units a day, and enough of a margin to make 20M per unit bought and sold. The problem is, I can only buy and sell 2-3 of these a day, even if I am constantly updating my orders.

Is there something wrong with the type of item I am choosing?

How much should I be making daily with a 2.5B capital if I am on a fair amount?


I wrote a wall of text but when i pressed "Post" it dissapeared and i cba to write it again

so long story short, more items, when i had that kinda cash i had 40-50 items in 2 different hubs in sellorders and profit was around 60-100 mil a day with little to no effort on my part (orders where updated 2-3 times a day) except for a very extensive researchphase and a few testruns i did prior to it.

One factor was that bottom line profit should overall stay above 20% (including redfrog fees, dont haul 1bil cargo if you dont have the ship for it)

so research is the key, altough if you can constantly update your orders its easier to find stuff to haul and sell and your profit should be way higher in comparison to mine.

“High expectations are the key to absolutely everything”
Rykker Bow
Center for Advanced Studies
#3 - 2014-07-14 03:09:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rykker Bow
with 2.5b capital I'd expect 10-15% returns per day. But you can expect diminishing returns the higher your capital grows. The time sink in the beginning will be finding the right items to trade in that compliments your capital, your trading style and when you can update orders.

I usually expect to get 5-10% of the units per day also so if your item was trading 30 units I'd like to see 1.5-3 of these in my hanger to resell. That would include about six order updates across the day. The beginning is tough. Especially as you have to change the items in your trading portfolio as your capital grows. Once you hit your limit you can refine it and just go to town on it whenever you like with occasional checks for new or buffed items.

After a few years of trading, the items I trade in have remained pretty constant but I've also been continually refining it; removing the under performers and adding items along the way. It's a constant cycle of finding those items that work well for you. With 40b in capital I can jump in and out of the market and with a day or two lead time can make about 1b per day trading with three to four order updates.

The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated - The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards
Ara Galacticon
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-07-14 03:39:26 UTC
Rykker Bow wrote:
with 2.5b capital I'd expect 10-15% returns per day. But you can expect diminishing returns the higher your capital grows. The time sink in the beginning will be finding the right items to trade in that compliments your capital, your trading style and when you can update orders.

I usually expect to get 5-10% of the units per day also so if your item was trading 30 units I'd like to see 1.5-3 of these in my hanger to resell. That would include about six order updates across the day. The beginning is tough. Especially as you have to change the items in your trading portfolio as your capital grows. Once you hit your limit you can refine it and just go to town on it whenever you like with occasional checks for new or buffed items.

After a few years of trading, the items I trade in have remained pretty constant but I've also been continually refining it; removing the under performers and adding items along the way. It's a constant cycle of finding those items that work well for you. With 40b in capital I can jump in and out of the market and with a day or two lead time can make about 1b per day trading with three to four order updates.


How many items should I have orders for at any given time? Is it more reliable to have many orders open for different products? The problem with diversity is I am trading items that are worth 70%+ of my current capital.

And what is the "limit"? What kind of items are people trading with 40B+ capital?
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#5 - 2014-07-14 04:25:32 UTC
Ara Galacticon wrote:
Rykker Bow wrote:
with 2.5b capital I'd expect 10-15% returns per day. But you can expect diminishing returns the higher your capital grows. The time sink in the beginning will be finding the right items to trade in that compliments your capital, your trading style and when you can update orders.

I usually expect to get 5-10% of the units per day also so if your item was trading 30 units I'd like to see 1.5-3 of these in my hanger to resell. That would include about six order updates across the day. The beginning is tough. Especially as you have to change the items in your trading portfolio as your capital grows. Once you hit your limit you can refine it and just go to town on it whenever you like with occasional checks for new or buffed items.

After a few years of trading, the items I trade in have remained pretty constant but I've also been continually refining it; removing the under performers and adding items along the way. It's a constant cycle of finding those items that work well for you. With 40b in capital I can jump in and out of the market and with a day or two lead time can make about 1b per day trading with three to four order updates.


How many items should I have orders for at any given time? Is it more reliable to have many orders open for different products? The problem with diversity is I am trading items that are worth 70%+ of my current capital.

And what is the "limit"? What kind of items are people trading with 40B+ capital?



I would be very hesitant to put so much of your capital in one specific item. You aren't well positioned to respond to market shifts and could get thumped hard if, for instance, you had 30% of your capital in a single deadspace shield module, and then one wormhole corp or incursion corp (the main consumers of those modules) decided to change their corp's focus and the market gets flooded by those modules.

I have a *lot* of orders active at any one time, usually 180-239 (my limit from skills; Tycoon 3 and Trade 4). And I do not have close to 40B on the market (at least not if you do not include some items that are longer term holdings).

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Rykker Bow
Center for Advanced Studies
#6 - 2014-07-14 04:38:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Rykker Bow
Ara Galacticon wrote:


How many items should I have orders for at any given time? Is it more reliable to have many orders open for different products? The problem with diversity is I am trading items that are worth 70%+ of my current capital.

And what is the "limit"? What kind of items are people trading with 40B+ capital?


While there's no right way to trade, just a bunch of different good ways that's a compromise between grinding/making the most isk possible and keeping your sanity, I tend toward a very diversified group of items. Sticking to only a couple of items leaves you open to losses due to market fluctuations and downright collapses. I remember a week where a certain group of items completely collapsed a year or two ago due to a fw mechanic flaw where I lost about 1b/day when I was trading heavily. While that was a pretty big loss, I still made a profit overall due to diversification.

The limit is dependent on how many orders you can keep going without getting burned out and collapsing into a ball of jello like substance at the end of the day. And what items do I trade? I don't think I'll be answering that question any time soon in the forums although there are a couple of people I've shared 'The List' with Blink

The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated - The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards